CHAIRPERSON: I would like some quiet, please. Ms Nomsa, can you hear me? I would like you to raise your voice a little bit so that everyone here could hear you. We welcome you before this Commission. We will ask you to introduce the person who is here with you, on your left. Can you hear me Nonsa? I would like you to introduce the person who is sitting next to you. I didn't get a response.
MRS MABUZA: His name is Anton Madanzela.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I would like to ask Commissioner Malan to lead you as you take your oath.
NONSA NOBUHLE MABUZA: (Duly sworn, states).
MR MALAN: Thank you. You may take a seat.
MS SOOKA: Nonsa, can you hear me?
MRS MABUZA: Pardon?
MRS MABUZA: Can you hear me?
MS SOOKA: I am going to ask you to tell us your story about what happened on that day, the 16th of May 1986. Try and talk loudly so that we can all hear you.
MRS MABUZA: I was 17 years old and in Std 9. On the 18th of May 1986 I was from school, it was late in the evening. We were singing choruses, freedom charters. We went past one passage and we didn't know that the police were always around that passage. As we were passing we heard a gun fire. I didn't know that when someone is shooting or when you hear NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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gun fire what to do. We were many. Three of us died and some of us got hurt. One of the people who got injured is my brother next to me.
After that we were taken to hospital, Shongwe Hospital. When we arrived there they could not treat me. They transferred me to Numbele Hospital. At Numbele Hospital they also failed. They transferred me to Rob Ferreira, and Rob Ferreira also failed. I was transferred to Garankuwa. I had 11 bullets in my body. One in my hand, one in my arm, one in my rib, spinal cord, 11 the total of them.
Those bullets were the result that I am paralysed today. Even up today it is difficult for me to go and pass urine on my own. I have a problem. I can't even go for a short distance without messing myself. After that, when I came back from hospital, when I was discharged, it was difficult. I have to go for medication from time to time. I went for neuro-surgery and they also brought me for physio-therapy at Rob Ferreira Hospital.
They gave me some walking sticks to try and walk. I was also transferred to hospital. There I met Dr Van Graan. One doctor said to me there is no space for patients. They have a shortage of beds. I was supposed to be transferred to Shongwa Hospital. Also Shongwa Hospital had the same problem, a shortage of beds. I was discharged. I went back home.
I would also like to be like the rest, to be like other girls. I want to go to school. I want to be in a nicer place. I am no longer staying at home, because I was injured. I am no longer staying at home.
MS SOOKA: Nonsa ...
MS MABUZA: I left home in June in 1977. I had a quarrel
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with my brother and since I left home my mother never bothered to come and see me where I am staying. She doesn't visit me. She doesn't send me a note or anything, any message to say hello and she doesn't know how I survive. I don't know or what to do to survive. I even pray that God must come and take me so that I can have rest, rest. I don't have relatives any more. My relatives are people who aren't anyone to me because they feel sorry for me. I depend on neighbours, because if I was educated, I was going to go far away and walk. I wasn't going to hire anyone to help me or ask help from someone. Thank you.
MS SOOKA: Nonsa, I am going to ask you some questions just to get clarity in our minds about what actually happened. Were you students at a particular school? Nonsa, I can give you some time and I can pass to Anthony in the meantime. Shall I do that? Anthony, can you hear me? Anthony, can you hear me? Anthony, could I ask you to stand up, please?
ANTHONY MANDANZELA: (Duly sworn, states).
MS SOOKA: Thank you, you may be seated. Anthony, could you tell me a little bit about yourself, when this shooting accident took place, whether you were a student at a school, before you actually tell us about what happened.
MR MANDANZELA: I left school and I wasn't at school at that time. It was on Sunday, we had a meeting with other boys whom I was attending school with then. So we were singing as comrades. We were chanting, singing freedom charters and then as we were walking back home, we were singing. We were together and we were walking and singing until we arrived in one passage. Then we heard gun fire and I was shot in my stomach when I tried to run. Another bullet hit my leg. I fell down and I could hear some gun fire. When I woke up I
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saw whites and then I realised that I was at the wrong place. I went back. I was looking for water. When I arrived there I saw - I went to a car in a scrap-yard. I saw an ambulance and those people at the ambulance were looking for people who were injured. I tried to scream. Because I wanted them to see me. I said I am here. I heard one boer saying where is this guy. When I said I am here, I asked them why were you shooting at us. So they said to me no, you came to burn my house. So I said to them why do you think I was going to burn your house because I am not smoking, I don't have matches, I don't have anything with me. You can search me. They said okay then, they left me there.
The ambulance took me to Shongwa Hospital. At Shongwa Hospital they transferred me to Ngodini Hospital. After Ngodini I was discharged.
From that day my life started ... Most of the time I will try to lead my life clean. I was one boy who like to play soccer. Today people who know me of being a dancer and a soccer player, nothing else. Now I am not doing anything. I have a wife, I have children. I left my wife back home. I can't support them.
MS SOOKA: Remember to switch on the mike when Anthony is talking. Anthony, are you able to answer questions?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes.
MS SOOKA: Could you tell me where were you people going that night?
MR MANDANZELA: We were going home.
MS SOOKA: Where had you been coming from?
MR MANDANZELA: From school.
MS SOOKA: Had there been some kind of celebrations?
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MR MANDANZELA: We had a meeting and we were singing freedom songs.
MS SOOKA: Do you know who shot at you?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes, I do.
MS SOOKA: Do you want to say their names or do you want - we have got it in your statement, but do you want to tell us who did it, or do you want to leave it as having been said to us in your statement?
MR MANDANZELA: I can reveal their names here. Sgt Khoza, Simkonto and this white policeman, I don't know his name. He is the one whose name I don't know, but he was there also.
MS SOOKA: How many comrades were you there that night?
MR MANDANZELA: The speaker's mike is not on.
MS SOOKA: How many of you had there been on that night? How many of you were there together?
MR MANDANZELA: We were many. I can estimate like this hall, big as this hall.
MS SOOKA: How many of you got hurt that night and how many were killed?
MR MANDANZELA: Three were killed. One guy is left behind, he has still got a bullet in his arm. Another one has got an operation on his stomach and Nomsa next to me.
MS SOOKA: Did you people lay a charge against these police?
MR MANDANZELA: No, because they said it was a state of emergency.
MS SOOKA: Did you lay any claim against the police for any compensation?
MR MANDANZELA: No, we didn't. But the policemen came to see me after I was injured. One, his name is Mr Nkomto, who is late now and one policeman. They came to me, they told me NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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I was needed in Komatipoort so that they can give me some compensation. One boy told me that you must not go to Komatipoort because they want to kill you down there. So I didn't go there. That was the last time I ever got compensation or anything like that.
MS SOOKA: Do you still have any lasting effects from that shooting?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes, I still do. For example, when the weather is somehow cold I feel affected. My leg, everything. I do have some effects.
MS SOOKA: Do you have to go to hospital?
MR MANDANZELA: No, the last time I went to hospital it is when I was discharged.
MS SOOKA: Thank you. I am going to ask the other Commissioners if they want to ask us either you or Nonsa any questions.
CHAIRPERSON: We thank you, Anthony, thank you very much for your testimony that you have just put before us. I will ask other Commissioners to assist you further in clarifying the story that you have just told us.
MR MALAN: May I ask Mr Mandanzela, where did the shooting take place from, was it from the police station or from Sgt Manesa's house?
MR MANDANZELA: At the four-way stop in the street.
MR MALAN: Where did they shoot from?
MR MANDANZELA: It was dark and they were shooting at us.
MR MALAN: This four-way stop street, is it near the police station, is it near a house or was it just an ambush, or can you give us some context to where the shooting was coming from?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes, it was some kind of ambush. Even
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though it was in Ndlebi and there were houses on the left and right all over, but they were hiding themselves there.
MR MALAN: How far is it from the police station?
MR MANDANZELA: We only have a police stationa at Thongwe and at Komatipoort. It is about 32 kilometres and Thongwe is about 10 to 12 kilometres.
MR MALAN: Manesa's house, how far was that from the place where the shooting started?
MR MANDANZELA: We were near the church and we were still coming. We were far from his house, even though we were in the direction of his house.
MR MALAN: In your statement you say that you were going home from school, and then you elaborated that it was after a meeting. Can you tell us the purpose of the meeting and can you also explain why the group going home, moves together? Was the place where you had the meeting at the school, was it outside town, was everybody on their way home or could they have understood this to be some kind of attack or aggression?
MR MANDANZELA: The way it was, one could tell that we had no hidden agendas. We were just going from the school to our homes. The only way it is going from one passage to the other.
MR MALAN: Everybody wanting to go home from school had to travel along that road. You were all moving together, each of you on their way to their individual homes? Do we understand you correctly?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes, that's why some people were saying because they could arrive at their homes earlier. We continued going because we were going to our homes.
MR MALAN: Thank you. You also say in your statement that
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Sgt Manesa told you or one of them, one of the three policemen told you that they were shooting at you, because they thought that you were on your way to burning Sgt Manesa's house. Is that also correct? Are we reading this correctly?
MR MANDANZELA: That's what Sgt Manesa said.
MR MALAN: Do you have any idea how long this shooting continued, because it sounds like a little war.
MR MANDANZELA: The bullets came like sand, like stones. It was continuous and it was dark.
MR MALAN: How long do you think that this continued, can you tell us, was it 30 seconds or a minute or longer?
MR MANDANZELA: Yes, I can say 30 minutes.
MR MALAN: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
CHAIRPERSON: Any questions for Nonsa, Wynand?
MR MALAN: No, thank you, I have no more questions. Sorry, maybe I should ask the one question. You said that you left home in June, after a quarrel with your brother. Was that the home of your mother that you left?
MS MABUZA: It was my house.
MR MALAN: Was your mother living in that house or not?
MS MABUZA: Where I am from it is a rural area. Each and every member of the family has her or his own herd. So I had my own herd.
MR MALAN: Is that what you are really saying, you left the rural area, moving away from the family. Is that what you were telling us?
MS MABUZA: Yes.
MR MALAN: Why did you do that?
MS MABUZA: My brother chased me away.
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MR MALAN: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Lewin? Before we continue, Nonsa, I would like you Ms Nonsa, to explain to us how this injury affected you, except the physical injury. I mean, emotionally, how do you handle this? Do you see any change on this or other people, do other people see any change in you?
MS MABUZA: I am normal just like all other people. Most of the duties I do and maybe I can do better than other people here, except that I can't walk and I can't go and fetch water for myself and the house that I am staying in, it is not safe.
CHAIRPERSON: Where you are staying at the moment who is taking care of you? Like who is supporting you?
MS MABUZA: No, I don't have anyone. At this moment I stay with my brother-in-law.
CHAIRPERSON: Except going to school and finishing your matric, what would you like to have?
MS MABUZA: A decent home or a business or I would like to find a job to support myself.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
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MS SOOKA: I am now going to ask Mamma Machaba to take the oath, please, so that I can ask her to tell her story.
MRS MACHABA: ; (Duly sworn, states).
MS SOOKA: Mamma Machaba, will you tell us briefly about your son who was also shot in that incident, please.
MRS MACHABA: Yes. My son was the youngest. He left home in the evening on Sunday. He left for a long time. After a while I heard - then I said I can't see my child, but I heard some gun sounds. Then he said well, he is busy playing somewhere, and then I stayed with my husband. It was not easy for me to go to sleep. Then I woke up and had to
walk around. Then I realised that the boy is not coming back. I said to my husband let's go and look for this boy. My husband said don't worry, he will come back. I think we stayed there until the cock crows.
At round about four o'clock, because our village is so big, I went to my cousin to check whether maybe he slept there. Only to find that he did not sleep there. Then I went back home and I informed my husband that well, he is nowhere to be found. Then he said what must I do. I said let's go around. We went to Naas, because we had already heard a rumour that something had happened. As we arrived at Naas, we asked another boy and this boy said to us no, go to Komatipoort.
We then went to Komatipoort station although we did not have any money. I had to get money from home before getting to Komatipoort. On our arrival there we went to the police station. The police said no, go there, they are there where we are keeping the corpse. He was not there, because he was too small. Then we said to them he is not there.
We went back home again. On our arrival at home, before
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we could enter the house, we went past the Mangweni Trust at Mangweni. It was round about five o'clock they opened the mortuary. When they opened the mortuary, when I saw him there, I said well, is this my boy? He still has his clothes on. The eye was bulging and in other words, when they shot at him, the eye came out. Then we went back home. That's where I realised in fact that ...
MS SOOKA: Take your time.
MRS MACHABA: We went back home. In other words, we discovered the boy at the mortuary at Mangweni. I don't know the person who shot at him. I only heard that police
shot him, because I did not see him, it was already dark. That is how it happened.
Now the day came when a funeral was to be held. Then people came to assist us. They took us to a stadium. From there the mass funeral was held there and we went to Block C, that is the village where I stay. That's all what I saw on my boy. My boy was so small, he was not as old as all that. He was actually the last one and I hope that this boy will look after me when I grow old.
MS SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma. Can I just ask you a few questions, please. Mamma, was your son a member of the comrades?
MRS MACHABA: I am not sure there. Because he only left home to meet his friends where they normally meet. I am not sure.
MS SOOKA: Were there lots of trouble in the township then, Mamma?
MRS MACHABA: It was quiet, there was nothing. I think that was almost the first day.
MS SOOKA: Mamma, how old was your son at the time that he
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died?
MRS MACHABA: He was only 12 years old.
MS SOOKA: Was he still going to school at the time?
MRS MACHABA: Yes, he was attending school.
MS SOOKA: After this had taken place, did the police ever take a statement from you?
MRS MACHABA: No, they did not bother themselves to come.
MS SOOKA: Was there any charge ever laid against the policeman who shot them?
MRS MACHABA: No, we did not lay any charges.
MS SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma. I am going to ask the other
Commissioners if they want to ask you any questions before I ask the other mother to tell her story.
CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you, Mamma. Wynand Malan?
MR MALAN: I have no questions, thank you.
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MS SOOKA: Could I ask Mamma Thebela now to stand so she can take the oath, please.
MRS THEBELA: ; (Duly sworn, states).
MS SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma, you may be seated. Mamma, will you tell us briefly about your son, please.
MRS THEBELA: In 1986 while we were fast asleep, I heard them singing. They were singing slogans. Some children outside. Now my child came out of the house, to join them. As he was going, I heard a gun sound at Naas township. It was round about nine at night. It was not yet dark. The others were singing then. They were shooting. Shooting in the air. Then from there a few minutes therafter some came running, and they came knocking at my door. As they were knocking at my door, they said I must come out of the house. Then I woke up. Then I said to myself what has happened now with my child. Then they said to me let's go. I discovered my boy was almost dead. I cried there, where he lay. After that he said to me no, don't cry, Mamma, I won't die. I discovered that the bullet went inside the right leg and the other bullets went inside the body, from the back. From there we took him to the clinic at Mongweni. At our arrival there they transferred him to Shongwa Hospital. At Shongwa Hospital they did not help him. During that night they had to transfer him to Nongeni Hospital. On his arrival there there was nothing that could assist him.
Now I am told that there were six soldiers who were actually guarding him at the hospital. As they were guarding, surrounding the bed, if they wanted to assist him to remove the bullets, these soldiers refused. If he was asking for water and the soldiers refused that he should be given water. At the end they were just guarding and
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surrounding him in the bed. From there he died.
When we went there we discovered that he has already passed away. Then we asked. Well, they said to us he is dead already.
We said we wanted to see his whereabouts. They refused. Later on we went back again. I think it was almost after a week, we went there. On our arrival there they took us, they told us where he was kept. They removed the clothes which he had on. We said to them they had better transfer him from Ngondeni Hospital. They refused. They said no, he cannot be transferred, because these people are actually prisoners. We had to ask a question; whom did they kill, why, what's wrong with them, because they have never killed anybody. These people were just singing and they tried to join them and they were shot at. They were young in fact at that stage. They only joined their friends. Then they transferred them to Nelspruit mortuary.
Actually it was said that we are not going to get the corpse, because they have done something wrong against the government. We asked the question; what wrong have they done. They were refusing that we should have the corpses for the funerals. Until to a stage where we had to take this matter up with the high authorities. Then they released them.
The day came for the funeral. We went, we had a funeral, a mass funeral. As we were waiting for them, they brought them. Then we went to the stadium where the mass funeral was to be held. Actually on that day it was sort of like a rally. But to us, who were affected, it was painful. But people were laughing, some were singing and after that they said well, we can take the corpse for the funeral.
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At the burial there, nothing was given to us. There is nothing that we saw. There was no follow-up. It was just quiet and that was the end of it.
MS SOOKA: Mamma, how old was your son, Mamma, at the time of his death?
MRS THEBELA: He was only 15 years old.
MS SOOKA: Was he still at school?
MRS THEBELA: Yes, he was a scholar.
MS SOOKA: Mamma, I am going to ask the other Commissioners if they want to ask you any questions.
CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you, Mamma.
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MS SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma. I am now going to ask Mr Ngolbeni if he will stand to take the oath.
MR NGOLBENI: (Duly sworn, states).
MS SOOKA: Thank you, you may be seated. Mr Ngolbeni, you are going to tell us about your younger brother who also died in that incident. Will you tell us what his name was, how old he was and whether he was at school or whether he was employed, before you begin to tell us about what you learnt about this incident.
MR NGOLBENI: I will start by saying this. He was actually a scholar. He was at Bosho Primary School, doing Std 5. What I am going to say here, is not what I have seen, but is what I have heard.
It was during the day. I was not there at home, but it was said that there will be a meeting at school. This meeting was actually to explain to the people about the struggle and about the freedom, and to teach people the freedom songs.
I was not there, as I have already said. As I came back from home, because we had a night vigil somewhere, as a member of the congregation. When I came back I only slept. I did not notice anything. I wasn't aware whether there was any freedom songs or slogans chanted. I don't know.
What I remember the morning thereafter, it was a Monday. I realised that well, something has changed here at school. As we entered the classroom, some were looking at me. I did not realise what is happening now. At one stage I realised maybe there is something wrong with me. Now later on when already the classes were on, it was then that I learnt that some children had been shot. As I was listening to that and I saw police and soldiers coming in. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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They never asked anything. Instead they dispersed us. Everyone took his own direction. At round about three o'clock they were going from house to house, because they had expressed that at school. They found me in one of the houses. They did not know that I am related to that particular family. They said to me your brother, younger brother has been shot at. I took it very easy, because they did not say he is dead. They only said he had been shot at, amongst those who had been shot yesterday.
Well, I have already heard that some were injured, some were shot, but I did not hear that one of my brothers is also amongst those.
When I came home I was told that they were at Shongwa and from there they had been transferred to Ngondeni. So that they can remove the bullets which were there. I don't exactly know where the bullets were lodged. As we were preparing ourselves to go to Ngondeni Hospital and from there we were told that they will be transferred to Pretoria.
The following day I was told that he is now in Pretoria. By late in the evening we were told that he is already dead.
So the other things are what have been mentioned here already. I thank you.
MS SOOKA: Thank you. Could you tell me whether there was any investigation of this incident that came to your knowledge?
MR NGOLBENI: As far as I am concerned there was no investigation on the matter. But some people who were prepared to assist us, but there was nothing that they could do. That time we had a person who was the mayor at Naas who NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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wanted to assist us. He tried by all means in order to find out exactly what was the reason behind. He was always inter-acting with the police to find out exactly the reasons and the motive behind the shooting. But he could not get anything.
MS SOOKA: Did you ever go to a lawyer yourself?
MR NGOLBENI: At that time let me say this, in our minds we were so disappointed, to such an extent, that we could not even make a move, because we were told you are not allowed to move in the street at night. If you are found you will be charged.
MS SOOKA: It was the state of emergency then.
MR NGOLBENI: Yes, it was during the state of emergency.
MS SOOKA: Thank you very much. I am going to ask the Chairperson if she is going to ask the other people if they want to ask you questions.
CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you. I will ask Mr Malan maybe to ask questions in order to clarify certain issues.
MR MALAN: Mr Ngolbeni, thank you very much. I am still concerned about the perspectives and motives of the policemen who did the shooting. The Act enjoins us to find out also what the motives and perspectives of perpetrators were. Now Nonsa in her evidence and in her statement, says that you were returning from a farewell to those students who had to go back to boarding school. I will come back to what you say in your statement. You did say it is what you heard it is not what you saw. Anthony in his evidence, said that the shooting took place at this four-way stop, still quite a way from the home of this constable, the policeman Mangezi. In your statement which is in writing before us, you say that you were told that eh meeting was a meeting to
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teach the people about resistance and teaching them freedom songs, which is a different purpose. You also say that the shooting, you were told the shooting came from the home of Mangezi, as the students were passing the home, shooting came from there. Now can you tell us who gave you this information?
MR NGOLBENI: At that time you could listen to everything that was told to you from your peer group and from whomever. That is why I said earlier on that what I am going to say is not what I have seen, but this thing happened. Now when I came home I slept innocently, not knowing exactly what happened. I was staying alone. This boy actually who died, he was not actually staying with me, he was staying with my other mother.
Now after this incident when I wanted to know more, to know exactly which street were they following when they got shot at, they said they had been shot by Mr Mangezi, but I have not seen Mr Mangezi shooting him. The hearsay says he has been shot by Mangezi.
MR MALAN: I think that is sort of common cause at least, in terms of the oral history, but that is not the issue. We are trying to find out why did Mr Mangezi do it, and also, where did it take place. Was the evidence about the shooting not having taken place, not having taken place from Mangezi's home but from a car. I guess that was news to you when you heard Anthony talk about that. The question as to the purpose of the party when you heard Nonsa speak, that it was simply to say good-bye to students going back to boarding school. That must have also been news or have you heard those versions before?
MR NGOLBENI: I will say this. They were shot at while they NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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were singing but walking along the street. I don't know exactly what was happening at (indistinct) High School at that time. I don't know that. All that I know, is that they were shot at and they were shot by Mangezi, together with his colleagues. But I am told that amongst the police there was a white police officer. I am not sure, I never attended the funeral, but I am told that he passed away.
MR MALAN: Why do you think the police shot at the group?
MR NGOLBENI: In the first place I would say it was the very first day that the comrades were singing freedom songs. More especially in that area, we were not (indistinct), w did not know anything about the struggle. It was for the first time to make - I think the police now, their aim was sort of to stop these people, because they were making people aware of the struggle.
Secondly, is that as police officers, in other words, if they had to pass where they are, it was a sign of that they don't respect them in a way. That's what I can say.
MR MALAN: That helps me a lot, than you very much.
CHAIRPERSON: Lewin? Just before we come to an end of the story, can I ask this sergeant you mentioned, how was he perceived, because we have heard more especially from those people who were taking statements, and there were certain police officers who were known to be not good police, because they were actually not on good terms with the youth. Now according to you, I would like to know. Was he in the good books of the comrades or how did you perceive Mangesi?
MR NGOLBENI: As far as I am concerned, the police during thsoe days, they did not have actually a good human relationship with the people. I am not sure what was wrong, but there was no good contact or good human relationships.
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Even when you meet him, you greet him, even if you know him, but there wasn't a good human relationship. It was that during that time. More than that, nothing.
CHAIRPERSON: Now can I further ask you a question about particularly Sgt Mangezi. Let's forget about the rest of the police, particularly Mangezi.
MR NGOLBENI: Mangezi was not a very bad person. If you meet him he could joke, he could laugh, he could more especially while he was on duty. You could not clearly distinguish whether he was a good person or a bad person. So we regarded him the way he acted in this fashion. He wanted to make people of Naas to see him as a very good person, and yet when he is together with his colleagues he is not a good person.
MS SOOKA: Mr Ngolbeni, do you think that Sgt Mangezi might have thought that the group of young comrades were going to attack his house and so he then panicked and he shot at them. Do you think that that might have happened?
MR NGOLBENI: Let me put it this way. If you from from the school at (indistinct), going to Mangezi's house, he actually Mangezi was regarded as CID. There are other CIDs who alongside the very same street, before you reach Mangezi's home, but they went through those houses and there was nothing wrong. When they approached Mangezi's house, something happened. Now that is the question.
CHAIRPERSON: I will again ask Mr Malan to ask you questions.
MR MALAN: I jsut want to ask Nonsa. In your statement you say that both Mangezi and Nkosa are now dead. You say the perpetrators are now dead. Does that include also - you say both? Those are only Nkosa and Mangezi or is the white
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policeman also dead? Secondly, do you know when they died and how they died?
MS MABUZA: What I know, I was in hospital. I was in hospital and I was told that Mangezi is dead. How he died I don't know. The other police also he ... (End of tape, side 2).
CHAIRPERSON: ... that we should remain here for this hearing for almost four days, listening from different stories of some incidents that took place between - incidents that happened from 1966 to 1993. Now the hearings here that took place, I would say, it is almost similar to any other hearing, to try and find out the truth. We heard from the witnesses the way they were tortured in different ways. We heard from the witnesses giving statements, that they have been troubled, some were tortured, some were troubled by the SADF and some were actually, the comrades, some were actually under the UDF. The organisation now which has been the ANC. We also learnt quite a lot of things, about some of the things that were actually done by the group known as Khabasa. Some told us that they were actually - had problems while they were in camps of the African National Congress. Now we are taking all what we have gathered here to the investigating unit, and we hope that unit is going to assist us to clarify some of the issues which were not clarified.
As a Commission we want to invite all the people from the Mpumulanga Province, that the process which we have started, should give you courage, that people should come forward and give in statements. Before we can come to a region, we believe that we first have to check how many statements have been presented. If there are no statements
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we cannot simply say we are going to Leandra or we are going to Barberton. We are going there determined by the statements which have already been forwarded. We think you are going to hand in hand with the committee. The statements that are going to be received will determine where the hearings will be.
This Commission also have amnesty hearings. We also invite, more especially people from the Mpumulanga Province, those who know very well that actually in a way they are affected in violating other people's rights, they should come forward. They must fill out those forms, they must come forward, and say what they have done in the past.
I think you will realise that there are lots and lots of people who are always saying, they say here I will only get peace the time when I am going to hear from someone who is asking forgiveness. I still call upon you to work hand in hand with the amnesty people. I want to emphasise. There is also a dead-line date, according to the Act. That date is a cut-off date for those people who would like to appear before the amnesty committee. It is the 14th of December 1996.
If you don't come forward before this period, well, it would be hard luck for him or her. Because he may have to appear before a court of law. Yet, these hearings were meant actually that a person should also be in a position to ask for amnesty. The whole aim here is to reconcile.
After this cut-off date of the 14th, you may find yourself in trouble or appear before a court of law.
The other thing, lastly, which I would like to mention here, we invite all the people, more especially who are members of the NGO and maybe those who are the officials in
23 MR NGOLBENI
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the education field, to assist more especially those people who are making statements, and help them and assist them in any way. Things which cannot come from the Commission but sort of assist them in a way, what can be done before answers can be obtained from the Commission.
Something that can also sort of assist, more especially those are leaders of the community, people should realise something or become aware of something that they can do, than just sitting and waiting for the results of the Commission.
We are really calling upon you to assist in that regard. There are many things that can be done. As a Commission we want to thank you all. We will request you that Rev Ntembu will come forward. He will have a way to do it, maybe by way of prayer. We thank you.
CLOSING ADDRESS AND PRAYER BY REVEREND: (NOT INTERPRETED INTO ENGLISH)
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
