CHAIRPERSON: Mr Themba, can you hear me?
MR THEMBA: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: We would like to welcome you to the Commission. Is the person sitting next to you somebody who has come to support you?
MR THEMBA: He is Mr Joseph Nakwacha, who is sitting next to me. He is the cousin to my mother. He is one of the family members.
CHAIRPERSON: We would like to welcome him too. Before you begin to tell your story I am going to ask Mr Lewin to administer the oath.
MOSES LENTSHISI THEMBA: (Duly sworn, states).
MS MKHIZE: Mr Themba, we acknowledge your presence together with your brother. I must firstly request you to briefly give us your story. Since during, when you said there was a meeting on the 11th of August 1992, if you can start there we would be very happy, and explain what happened that day.
MR THEMBA: Firstly, I would like to express my gratitude and thanks. It is not in my policy that I will just stick to the issue first. Firstly, I know that first I need to thank the Commission for the structuring of this structure as a Commission. I am really confused. I wasn't aware that we are going to have such a structure in the country.
To start the issue. On the 11th of August 1992 I woke up in the morning. I was going to visit my relatives in
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Schoemansdal. When I returned from there, during the mid-day, I returned home when it was a little bit later, round about five. I found my wife, she was in my shop. She was back from work, because she was also working. She just came and told me that you, because of your hard work, the people have started boycotting you. I was really shocked. How can my wife say that I am having a big cake. I questioned her what the issue is. She said to me here are the documents. The people have started boycotting your shop. Today we are going to have a meeting, as the community you are the agenda of the issue, that the people must not come and support you any more. I was radical. It was not that I know the business. I am not joking about it. I even said that this boycott is not even going to affect me. People will not just come and buy here because I am a white or whether I am fighting against the ANC or not. I just remembered that last month during that year, my car was burnt because I had no one to give me the evidence. I could not take the matter further. I was lucky during the meeting of that day that the person whom I suspected that he burnt my car, he organised the meeting. His name is James Somboli. He is the sister to my child from my elder father's family. He is the suspect. I even thought that he was the one responsible for burning my car. I even questioned why he is mobilising people to boycott my businesses and he is talking to the comrades to act against me.
I also went to the meeting. I parked my car outside the venue. I entered the meeting. The person who was chairing the meeting was James Somboli. He is the general-secretary of Youth League in Umpumalanga province. There was another boy called Kenneth Nkosi and there was also
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Makana, they were chairing that meeting. Well, I attended the meeting. I took a seat there. I sit, I listened. I wanted to get the point of why they are boycotting the shop. Then the time came in the agenda where James stood up and asked everybody that do they listen to him. He said Mashipa store, people must not to say to buy to that shop, people must not go and buy at that shop. He is going to give a date when are the people going to start buying there. I raised a hand in that meeting. They didn't want to appoint me, but later they gave me attention. I questioned that gentleman, recently my car was burnt but you never approached me to question why this is happening. Now you are mobilising people indicating that they should boycott my business. I didn't get an answer from them. People who were there, who attended the meeting, some are still here, are not saying that they must be treated. They were shouting that I behave like a white man, therefore I need to take my shop to the town or city, because I am a white man. I questioned why am I guilty. People were pushing me, advising me not to interfere in that issue. Then I left the meeting, I went back home.
On that very day, on Thursday, I woke up. I continued with my normal duties. I went to the wholesalers, I filled up my stock. I told myself well, the boycott is there, they did not say that I should close my shop, they only said people should not go. I opened my shop. I worked on Friday, on Saturday, I worked on Sunday. It was just normal. Nobody boycotted me. People were buying normally as usual.
Now at night, on Sunday, there was a match between Nigeria and South Africa. It was on the 14th August. I closed earlier than normal, because I wanted to go and watch HRV/THEMBA the/...
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the match on TV. I had a few drinks on that day. I was just watching TV. Another friend of mine visited me. We sat together around there and we drank a few drinks, and I said to him well, I cannot continue watching the match, it is boring, I had better go and sleep. As I left the room from the lounge, going to my room, I felt I had better sleep. Fortunately enough I have got another TV in the bedroom. I said well, I will continue watching. Then it was about 15 minutes and I felt dizzy. I stood up. I said I had better switch off the lights. As I was switching off the lights, after 15 minutes, exactly the same time when my car was burnt. The time when my car was burnt, when I parked my car and I was about to enter my house. At the time when I entered my house I was told my car was burning outside. The same thing applied. As I was about to switch off my lights, after 15 to 20 minutes my sister, because the shop which I own is just next to my sister's house. My sister came to my room on the window and knocked and she said to me, did you switch off the stove, I feel there is a smell of some kind. Fortunately enough the house faces the shop, on the side of the window. I woke up very quickly. I opened the curtain. As we were looking across, we saw the smoke.
CHAIRPERSON: Could I have order in the room, please. We have accorded all witnesses dignity and respect and we ask to behave in the same fashion to everybody else.
MR THEMBA: I saw the smoke up on top of the corrugated iron. I said oh, God, it is not longer a boycott, it is now the burning, that is what I said. I was standing watching. Then I said, I went out together with my wife and I took the keys, ran to check if we could do something there, to try and extinguish the fire and we found that we couldn't,
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because the fire was right in front of the shop. It was just on the front there. Whether it was petrol or somehow I don't know. We could not enter. If you look inside, you could see that it was a counter service there, you could see from the counters that it was burning, right from one side to another, but there was no way in which you could extinguish the fire.
The people were coming in, trying to give assistance to extinguish the fire, breaking windows, throwing in soil and we phoned the fire brigade and even the police. Well, they asked me who is the suspect in this regard. I told them. Then they said they are going to investigate. It continued and it was discovered that police came back to me and said well, the suspects whom you mentioned to us actually said they don't know anything about this. They said they are only committed to peace.
On top of that, some few days thereafter, it was heard that I am actually suspecting those people who burnt my shop. I do have a proof which could sort of support my suspicion. The following week James was helping in that shop. He never worked in that shop, but he was working as if he was so happy.
After that, as I was listening, some few days thereafter, in September another friend of mine who was a businessman also died. There was a problem. It was suspected as if we were actually involved in his death. Then we tried that they should investigate the matter. James turned around and said, he said myself and the other businessmen bought the guns to shoot the businessman who has died. I said to myself but what is he saying, look at this now. He is talking lies. Something which I never talked. I
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was shocked. From there I started to be very suspicious about him. From there we made a follow-up and we said he is actually - I am not here, I was open enough to him. I don't wish him any bad luck.
I think this is the Commission where I can sort of say, speak out, so that others can also listen to this.
Lastly, before going further, he came back now, he said together with Minister of Housing in Umpumalanga and Mr General Tswana who is also a mayor and Mr Edward Morgan. They came at my home with the Bible on their hands. They said no, let us reconcile, James doesn't know anything, and then they opened the Bible, and we did - because even myself, I don't really have evidence that James was actually the person responsible.
Up until this year a person actually who came, who was together with James, and said to me Parra, Parra, I feel very much sorry for you, you should now have progressed but we realise that you are a successful busienssman and you have now turned from a big shop into a very smaller shop. I was - and he said to me, he is actually the person who was responsible for burning the shop. James' name was also included there. That's where I said, oh, if it was not the Truth Commission and my good heart, maybe I could have done something wrong. But I am not that type of a person. What I am trying to ask from the Truth Commission is that I have got, I owe a lot of money. I am owing a lot than the assets I am having. I may go back home to find only that the electricity has been cut off, because I cannot afford to pay. I am now expecting some summons from the attorneys. I have got a summons which are worth R60 000,00. I have no chance even to go to the bank and lend money. Once I open
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the door the bank manager will say no, we can't assist you. I have tried to apply from the Kuzuma Council somehow perhaps if I could be assisted there.
I don't know. If I can bring a person, the way I was worried, because he is actually the son of my sister. I brought him, after the death of his mother, I brought him here. Today he has turned to be my enemy. If that is not the case, please talk to him, advise him. I think now if it was now he couldn't do this, because he is actually a blood relative to me.
Let me come back now to the shop. I tried to, used the old corrugated irons. If actually it was the new corrugated iron, I think I could have lost everything, but because it was the old type of corrugated iron I managed to have some. Now I am trying to explain here. If there is a way, a way which could be found. I am not trying to channel the Truth Commission here. Maybe if they could say to me go to this bank and they will give you a loan, I could go there. I am serious about this. Because I know very well.
CHAIRPERSON: Could I ask people to remain quiet, please.
MS MKHIZE: We want to thank you, Mr Themba, about your story which you told us. I will ask you a few questions in order just to get some clarity.
As you are here, we are here to try and investigate that what took place, was it politically-motivated or not. Maybe you can explain to us, briefly, whether your suspect, maybe you had problems with him sometimes before?
MR THEMBA: We never had a conflict. I remember as you are a black, traditionally we do not get people from outside to work in the business, if you are a big family. I can just explain that his character was that he was a lazy person,
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that he was the conflict in the time that I know. He cannot work at home. He could not work, he was stubborn, but he was very much active in the political issues. I can just say that straightforward. I don't think that could have resulted in the conflict. He moved away from my home without saying good-bye to me as a parent. Maybe it is how he indicated that he was against me. That's why I am here today to say if there is a chance, could there be an investigation.
MS MKHIZE: If you are saying he moved away from home during the struggle, how old was he?
MR THEMBA: I cannot go further than that one. I don't even know how old is he now, because I am confused. I can't remember what is his age now, I don't know him. I just see him as an old man now. I am not trying that I am diverting from the issue. I do not have an interest now.
MS MKHIZE: Maybe if one can just take you back to that, and refer you to that meeting where about 500 people attended that meeting and there was a resolution taken. If you can remember, usually in meetings, there used to be different ideas. Can you just maybe remember whether there was just the proper reasoning and how about the resolution.
MR THEMBA: What I can tell you is that they used to come there and put the tables and therefore they could stand up and talk. Then thereafter they take decisions on there. The committee is just to listen to them. Then at the end people say have you, do you understand. Then people used to agree. I am trying to say there wasn't a chance of addressing myself.
CHAIRPERSON: Order, please!
MS MKHIZE: The other thing you said was that you said somebody came like the reverend and the mayor and one of the HRV/THEMBA dignitaries/...
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dignitaries. You did not get any chance to explain why was your shop burnt.
MR THEMBA: What I can say to you is that those are the reasons I have given to them, that James left me as a parent. He never said good-bye. You can meet him, who is supporting him now? He said to me don't worry. How can a child say that to me don't worry. To indicate that he was no more suffering. I have even forgotten to mention that he received petrol from one businessman and was given money to destroy my property. In other words, when we were discussing with Mr Padiachey, the aim of their visit was to try to identify what the conflict is. Only to find that he is not interested. But later he agreed to shake the hands with me, and we had to open the Bible. Until now that they came and we discussed.
MS MKHIZE: As I have said, what is important to us is to have a reason, in fact, what conflict, was there any conflict between you and him?
MR THEMBA: No, there wasn't any conflict. I am also a member of the ANC.
CHAIRPERSON: I am going to ask people for the last time to keep quiet. I will remind you that I have the power to have you removed from this room. The whole day we have heard a number of witnesses and we have accorded them a certain kind of dignity to allow them to tell their stories.
MS MKHIZE: Lastly, before I take this opportunity back to the Chairperson, as you said to us you are a businessman and you are educated. Didn't you realise that there was a need that you take this issue to court, because you had no financial problems by that time and you had suspects.
MR THEMBA: I don't know whether I tried to explain. The
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burning of the shop is clearly indicated that I became financially bankrupt. Even today I have nothing. Even if I could take it further to the lawyers and attorneys. All those who were investigating, they say those people whom you suspect they say they are innocent. Until now that I get the correct information. Where one member from the team managed to approach me and say we were a team responsible for that. I therefore capitalise on the chance of this Truth Commission to talk to the Commission, because I do not have even money now. I operate in my business by getting financial assistance from the family, because I have got no money. I used to get 400, R500,00 from members of the families to get the store. Then the following week I used to pay them.
MS MKHIZE: I therefore believe that the Chairperson is going to explain.
CHAIRPERSON: I am going to ask the other Commissioners if they want to ask any more questions. Mr Themba, your story is a very difficult one and it is a problem which the Commission faces, because technically arson is not really a category included in the definition given in the Act. There have been however a number of arson cases which are associated with a political motive. The Commission is hearing them but they have not yet established a clear policy on whether they are going to categorise arson as a category under the definition of severe ill-treatment. So yes, we are hearing your case, but it is a matter which is still being investigated, because there are a number of arson cases which have come to the Commission. We will investigate the matter further and will try and obtain a clear guideline on what the Commission is going to do about
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the arson cases. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
MR THEMBA: Can I ask something? Tell you something. It is something that I do not understand when you say it is not politically motivated.
CHAIRPERSON: No, you misunderstand me. I am not saying that it is not politically motivated. I am saying that in terms of the Act, you know the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, the definition of gross human rights violations, talks about killings, abduction, torture or severe ill-treatment. Now arson is not included in that definition. However, through the work of the Truth Commission in the months that have gone by, there have been a number of arson cases, which have come to the Commission, which clearly have a political motive. It was clearly part of the violence that took place during our political history over the last number of years. The Commission has to decide on where it is going to fit those arson cases. That is why I am saying you will be hearing from us on whether it falls within this definition or not. In the meantime, however, we are hearing the arson cases and we are deciding on where to fit them in. It is not the question of the political motive that is in issue; it is the question of definition and how wide we are going to interpret that definition. Is that understood?
MR THEMBA: Thank you, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for sharing your story with us.
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