DR BORAINE: The next three witnesses will appear together because there is a connection between the stories that they will tell, and they are as follows, and I will ask them to please come forward. Bukiwe Maud Mpongoshe, Mutiwe Nellie Marwanqana, Thandiwe Margaret Mdlankomo.
Would you please put the earphones on your ears so that we can hear each other. I would like to test and make sure that you can all hear me and that you can especially hear the translations okay. All right, thank you very much. Would you please put the light on and you could leave it on, because it is okay.
Dear friends, I want to welcome you on behalf of the Commission. You are the last witnesses that we will be hearing today and we will resume again tomorrow.
We are especially grateful to you because you have been here for a very long time, I hope you will have found what you have been listening to, of some comfort to you to know that there are so many others who have shared some of your pain as you share theirs.
You have a common bond in that all of you have lost loved ones in the infamous raid on Lesotho by the South African Security Forces. You will tell us about that in a moment. Before you do though, I must please ask you to
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stand and take the oath. You can stand together and take the oath together. Will you please stand.
BUKIWE MAUD MPONGOSHE, MUTIWE NELLIE MARWANQANA, THANDIWE MARGARET MDLANKOMO: (sworn state)
DR BORAINE: Thank you very much. Please be seated. My colleague, Mr Ntsiki Sandi is going to lead you as you tell your stories. I will hand over to him now.
MR SANDI: Thank you Chairman. When I read your statements, Mrs Mpongoshe and Mrs Mdlankomo and Mrs Marwanqana, your story is the same. It is exactly the same, the only difference is that Mrs Marwanqana was there in Lesotho at the time of the shooting and the killing of our people.
Mrs Mpongoshe and Mrs Mdlankomo did you say you would like to take off from the time, you said from the time of Joseph Pakamile Mpongoshe and Ligwa left and the reasons for their flight and Mrs Marwanqana, thereafter we will want to hear what happened in Lesotho.
Let's start with you Mrs Mpongoshe. Your husband, according to the statement in front of us here, Mr Joseph Pakamile Mpongoshe, after a period of harassment, unending harassment and imprisonment by the police, decided to leave the country. When was that Mrs Mpongoshe?
MRS MPONGOSHE: That was 1975.
MR SANDI: Can you explain what happened? What was the reason for his flight from the country in 1977, what did he say the reason was and where did he say he was going?
MRS MPONGOSHE: thank you Chairperson. My husband, one comrade was from the Island who died and they went to the funeral at Elinge, when they came back from the funeral, some Boers came by night, middle of the night.
They persuaded him, they begged him to be their agent
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because they could see that he was intelligent and they were his friends they said and he said, no, you can't be my friends after I've spent so many years in prison and in Robben Island without my kids and then you came and took my friends and I can't sell my people out after this prison sentence.
And they begged him, but then they left because he was at the time working at Spices. When he got there, they said Joseph we have decided to cut down, reduce staff and he was surprised. Whilst he was having a position like his, how could he be retrenched, one of those who are retrenched. But then he came back and he related this.
He was reading this book outside, about 12 they came. This was from all directions, they came from all directions, looking for him and I said there he was, outside. They went to him. They said we would like to see you at Sanlam at two.
He said, no, I'll go, I know where it is and so he went on his own. When he got there at two o'clock, apparently he was questioned, according to what he told me about what was happening at the funeral at Elinge.
And they asked him not to tell lies because they did have a tape, so he said now if you have a tape, what do you want and they started hitting him, hitting him, then they released him at about four, half past four. So he went to the Doctor (indistinct). Before he went to the Doctor, he started with a lawyer, then from the lawyer, he went to the Doctor and then he came at about eight.
And I was wondering why he was not coming back. So he said (indistinct) can I see you in the dining room, he said I am not going to put up tonight, I will sleep anywhere but
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tomorrow morning, let's meet in town, but the kids should go to school.
Indeed I did that the following morning. Because he suspected that the Special branch would come and fetch him. So we waited at eight at (indistinct) we went to one lawyer, he explained everything to the lawyer and also that they should arrange for me to be paid my benefits from Spicer. So I asked him why are you speaking like this, and he said I am not sure of my situation, but I want to leave having made arrangements for my kids.
So we went to do our groceries and at home I made him some Royco soup and he drank it. And then he said I am leaving, I am going to Fort Beaufort. I'll come back.
MR SANDI: Is that now the time when he left for good?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, yes, he left for good and he never came back. And when they came to ask for him, I said no I don't know I think he went to look for work. Until they said to me we will take you in if you don't want to tell us the truth and then I told them that I didn't know where he was exactly.
He said he was going to look for a job somewhere. Then one morning they came and then they would come late now and then, they would come the following day again. So they intensified the search for him and then the harassment started for me because they never gave me a rest.
I was even taken to Sanlam myself, so I went. Before I went to Sanlam I went to attend a (indistinct) and from there I went to them and they asked me. They said you called a lawyer over us, and I said no I called by you and they stared very angry at me. They said when did he leave, I told them.
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They said they wanted me the following day and I had to leave the baby.
MR SANDI: Sorry to interrupt. You say they were moved , you say they were irritated with you at the lawyers office?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, they didn't like that. They were very angry about it and again on the second time, I started with the lawyers office. They asked why I went there, I told them that I went to tell, they were angry.
They asked me the same questions and I didn't have anything to tell them. That's when they said I could go home and I left.
MR SANDI: Before we come to the actual tragedy, the 1982 tragedy where people, many people died, I would like to ask you to explain to us whether there was any link between you, any communication between you and your husband through messages, letters of phones whilst he was in Lesotho. Was there any communication?
MRS MPONGOSHE: No there wasn't, although I did receive one note which was quite, in a very mysterious way, I can't say where the note came from. But the Swazi lady came, she didn't tell me where my husband was, she didn't want to tell me where he was but she said he had sent some money through this lady for Christmas.
MR SANDI: At that time you didn't know where your husband was in Maseru?
MRS MPONGOSHE: No, I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything at all.
MR SANDI: Okay, now let's get into the 1982 incident. How did you get the message that your husband was one of the victims of the Maseru attack by the South African Defence Force?
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MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, I got this on Monday morning. I was selling biscuits at the time, so there would be kids who would be knocking now and again, and sometimes I would stop that because I was working night duty. Then at about eight another knock came, I heard another knock and then I saw these people. I didn't know who they were.
The gentlemen and lady from New Brighton and I was surprised, they said they wanted to talk to me, so I came out to the front.
And then, that's when they told me that my husband had been - he was one of the victims in Lesotho.
MR SANDI: Did you go to Lesotho for funeral arrangements? Where was he buried, was the body sent down to South Africa or did you have to go to Lesotho?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Arrangements were made for us to go there because they were not allowed to be buried here.
MR SANDI: Who was making these arrangements for you?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Mr Tsume, he was our organiser here with his wife, they were taking us up and down in their car to the Council of Churches to the special - and the Council of Churches arranged for us to go to Maseru by bus.
We were four families from this end.
MR SANDI: I take it Mrs Mdlankomo was one of these families who went to Maseru?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, she was.
MR SANDI: At the time when you were in Maseru, did you meet any people who had witnessed this incident who explained to you how it happened?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, I did meet some people. Some I don't know but they know my husband. I met them and then they explained that this helicopter came in the middle of the
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night and they pointed some houses. It selected certain houses that they targeted. And that's how the people were injured and killed. Houses were pointed out to us, some of them were burnt.
MR SANDI: Anything else Mpongoshe that you would like to explain about this incident?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Maybe more details we can get from Mrs Marwanqana, because she was there when this happened.
MR SANDI: Is that the end of your statement Mrs Mpongoshe?
MRS MPONGOSHE: Yes, that is all but I have a request to the Commission. If they can investigate for me who the people are who perpetrated this act, because this affected me very negatively, even my health has been affected. I am diabetic now and I also have high blood pressure and I don't work.
I am in a very miserable state, so I'd like the Commission to find out for me who perpetrated this act, for what reason, because my husband had already left the country and they were harassing him here and they followed him. So what was the reason, that's what I would like to know because I am living here in a miserable kind of state in my house.
MR SANDI: Is that the only request you have?
MRS MPONGOSHE: I have a child for whose education I have to pay.
MR SANDI: I am going to ask you whilst we are talking to Mrs Mdlankomo, then we can raise them again. Mrs Mdlankomo, Ligwa Graham Mdlankomo, who was born in Port Elizabeth. Did you say he was also one of the victims on the day of the 9th of December 1982, in Lesotho?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes.
MR SANDI: I'd request that you would please give us the
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reasons why he left the country, when did he leave the country?
MRS MDLANKOMO: ; I will start by saying I am Margaret Thandiwe Mdlankomo, I was born here at Korsten. I was blessed with four children, four boys and one daughter.
As I am here today, I have come to give an evidence about Mdlankomo Ligwa who was born at Jona, Korsten. I brought these children up and I encouraged them to attend school. When I felt that I was struggling, I requested that Ligwa should discontinue schooling so that he can assist me with the maintenance of the other children. He agreed and then he got a job at Korsten.
He worked very well there and he had good relationships with the employer. At some stage I realised that something was wrong with my son. I asked him what was wrong. His friend was Linda Mniti, Mbuyiselo Madaka was also his friend as well as Xelongileza. Xelong was the first to leave the country, he left the two behind.
He kept on working.
MR SANDI: Can I ask is Mbuyiselo Madaka the one who gave evidence this morning who is the brother to Topsy Madaka?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes.
MR SANDI: You can continue.
MRS MDLANKOMO: They went away. The other day Ligwa came with three envelopes. I was working at Donger. He gave me this envelopes and then I asked what were these envelopes for. He informed me that he has been expelled from the job, he stated that he didn't know why was he expelled.
I could realise that it might be the same thing that maybe the employer didn't understand. He was with this Linda. He was always busy. Please, Truth Commission, you
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can please apologise, I do not know the proper sequence of this incidents, because I am mentally affected because of the harassment that I received. I may make some mistakes.
He went to the initiation school in 1976, that is when I realised that really he and Linda were just out of hands.
I asked the other day Ligwa please tell me why are you involved with the Boers, because they always come here. He said no Mama, just tell them that you do not know them where I was.
The other day Linda came in, then I used to hide them because I am a parent. I had PT over there. I cannot remember the car which came to my place, but I gave them food.
One day I asked Linda when he visited again, I said Linda what are you doing with Ligwa. He said, please leave us alone, we won't tell you what we are doing.
MR SANDI: Can I please request that Mrs Mdlankomo, that you could please give me some clarity. As you have already said, you might have problems because you don't have a proper sequence of the events, I'd like to explain that I have to guide you so that I can highlight the events that I would like you to put emphasis on.
I would like you to highlight the incident when he left and the way in which you were subjected to the harassment.
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes, sir I will do so.
MR SANDI: Were there people who were looking for him when he left and then I would like you to go further to the incident and tell us what happened in 1982 when you learnt that he was one of the victims in the Lesotho massacre.
Let's start by asking this question. Why did he leave the country, did he inform you that he was leaving?
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MRS MDLANKOMO: I can state that we were harassed. I would just like to say that there was a day when it was a rainy day, they came with two big dogs, you could see that outside there were a lot of people, I think it was the police, they had heavy coats on.
The two dogs were brought inside, they came and rushed into Ligwa's room. These dogs shook the water from their bodies. During the period he was taken and the police, he was taken and then he went to Grahamstown.
His teammate was here at Kenilbosch. Ligwa and Mbuyio were at Grahamstown, so they were detained for 10 months without trial. When they came back they were stronger than before. They continued with the struggle.
MR SANDI: Was this the period when he left the country?
MRS MDLANKOMO: No. Yes, I am in the incident when they left the country. I'd like to explain that he gave information to siblings and stated that I am leaving, please look after my mother.
They were always together until they left the country. So the other day I went to fetch a key from one of my neighbours. I was surprised that Ligwa didn't come. The lady told me that Ligwa and one tall gentleman went around this corner. When I went home, I learnt that the same story was repeated by my mother.
Since then I was anxious, I was panicking. Mbuyio had also left the country, we were harassed continuously until I also went to Lesotho. I received a telephone call from Dora, my aunt, who was also my in-law. I learnt that my son had been shot dead at Maseru.
I was confused, I didn't know what to do. We didn't know where Lesotho was and how to get there. There were two PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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trees from the Tsuma family and then they said they would assist us.
They made arrangements that we should go and get passports, we went all over. Even the offices of the SACC and we were able to go to Lesotho to bury our children.
When we got there, Linda went away. He came back and he said when we got there at Lesotho, he was the first to welcome us at Lesotho. He was the first to welcome us.
We thought that we would bury the child on Sunday, but we had the funeral on Saturday. On Sunday we were taken by the Lesotho people and showed us all the houses as said before.
When they came to Ligwa, they called me and stated that here is the house in which Ligwa was killed. We saw him shoes, a bullet on the wall and the blood. This gentlemen who was guiding us stated that he was inciting the people who were attacking him.
Then this gentleman said can you see this door, he said the door was opened with the machine gun, it was during the night when they came, the attackers came. Linda was inside and these people was outside.
He said the gentleman said, he people who were attacking them said we are going to shoot this big mouth of yours. We can say they really did that because they shot him on the stomach, when he fell they also shot him on the head.
I could see that his nose and the nostrils were full of the brains, but you could identify him, but there was the other side which was darkened. I suspect it was due to haemorrhoids.
We rounded all the areas in which they used to spend
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their time and then Linda said I didn't know how I survived this. I was a bit irritable.
MR SANDI: Are these the people who were welcoming you, the same people who were guiding you to all these areas?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes, it is the same people. We held the funeral on Sunday and then we came back on the same day. I think after a week or two, this men came, the Special branch officers. They asked us if we did attend the funeral and we said, yes, we did.
They wanted to know what did we see. I stated that I saw a lot of people who were burnt, it was a mass funeral. I said I would request that, I wish I would never witness such a scene again.
MR SANDI: Do you know the name of the Special branch that came?
MRS MDLANKOMO: No, I cannot remember the officer. What I can state is that this person was hefty, he was having short pants, he had a gun and inside the socks and the other one was on the hip in the holster and then he had another one in the arm in the hand.
He said we have killed the big mouthed ANC.
MR SANDI: So did he repeat the same words that were uttered by somebody who was giving you details about the massacre?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes, because the person who came to my place said the same words.
The person really confirmed that the story that we heard, was the same as this one that we are hearing now about the big mouth.
MR SANDI: Were you not shocked to hear those words? To correlate the two, the words that you heard at Lesotho and then to hear them again uttered here at your place by a
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visitor?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes, I was very shocked.
MR SANDI: Is that the only thing that you can tell us?
MRS MDLANKOMO: I can state that Ligwa has a child. One of his children died, he was three days old. He has another son and then we support this little one, he is doing standard eight.
MR SANDI: Do you allow me to go further and ask Mrs Marwanqana who was there during the time of the massacre so that if there is something that you have forgotten you can be able to remember it?
MRS MDLANKOMO: Yes, it is so, but I would like to appeal to the Truth Commission just to make investigations about this massacre. I want to know what happened, why did they do such a scrupulous thing.
MR SANDI: Thank you Mama. Let's go further to Mrs Marwanqana. Mrs Marwanqana, I understand that you will be able to give us details about something that you witnessed. Can you please continue and inform us what did you see on the day of the massacre?
MRS MARWANQANA: Should I start from the Lesotho event?
MR SANDI: Yes, start there please.
MRS MARWANQANA: But I didn't want to start there, I want to start and begin from the period when I left the country.
MR SANDI: Okay, you can start there.
MRS MARWANQANA: I'd like to mention that my husband spent some years in Robben Island in 1964, he stayed there at Rooi Hell, he was expelled after he was released from Rooi Hell and then I was informed that I should go to Elinge. He was taken to Elinge because they didn't want him to be here any more.
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So I refused to go to Elinge because I didn't want to go there alone. We really did go to Elinge. Even though he was
at Elinge, again he was arrested, he was released after eight months. He was detained without trial.
He was arrested again in 1981, he served a sentence but later on they said he was not charged, it was over a year. After that when he was released, he said he is leaving and then I said if you say you leave South Africa, I will go along with you together with my children.
I really did go with him. So we went to, we used passports. When we got to Lesotho we were accommodated in a hotel. And the following day he phoned and communicated with Pakamile and Pakamile went to fetch us from the hotel.
After four days the Boers from South Africa came during the night, it was at 1 am, I could hear that there was a sound outside and then I woke my husband up and said I hear a sound outside, there might be a car outside.
So he prevented me from peeping through because we were afraid that we could be injured. My children were sleeping in the sitting room, I was in the room with my little boys. They kicked the door, the people who were coming inside, but they said they wanted Mavimbela. At the time they were calling Pakamile Mavimbela.
There was a White man who had smeared himself and darkened himself, he was having rough on his shoulders. I think he was at least embarrassed to shoot my husband in my presence, so he chased us away and send my children and I should get out of the room, so we went to the bathroom.
But my youngest daughter came to the room, he said he would hide and then I said, no we must be together. So that PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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if one of us is killed, we should all be killed.
Mpongoshe didn't open his door, my two children went out. During that time my son had a baby, a seven month old
baby. And then he said I must look after his son. I was saying he must also join us so that if we are killed, we should all be killed here in the bathroom, but he refused and he went to one of the rooms which was owned by Pakamile.
There was a sound of gun fire and then everything was quiet thereafter, but they didn't come to the bathroom, so I felt that we should go out. I started in Alfred's room and I called him Alfred, Alfred and we realised that he is dead.
So we covered him with a blanket. We went to another room, there was also a visitor here and he was also shot dead. We found our brother, Mpongoshe, he was killed also.
I said to my son I told you about this. I stated to you that I have been telling you about your laziness, I was thinking that he was asleep. I informed him that I cannot tolerate this business, I said, why should you sleep whilst we have been shot, if there were shots?
I didn't realise that I was talking to a corpse because I could see that he was shot on the head. The child that I am talking about is Mzukisi. I could see that they started with Mzukisi because he was next to the door so he fell next to the door.
Probably they started by shooting him. We were looking for Thandiswa because we couldn't find him. You could see that the door was in tatters. They stole my husband's watch because they are also thieves.
I could see that Mpongoshe's room there was some money, so I felt that we should go and look for this money, but we
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could find that they had also searched the room and took the money away.
We were still looking for Thandiswa and then I went to
one of the gentleman who was the next door neighbour. This gentleman accommodated us for quite a long time after this incident.
But when he assisted us with accommodation, I felt that I should go back to my house and see what was going on. I informed some of the children who visited us and reported that we are still looking for one of the children. During that period this child was still seven months, the one that was left behind by Thandiswa.
Some of the people came in and stated that they have brought my daughter along, but when I looked through I could see that my child was just behind the wardrobe. I could see that it was my daughter. She was also shot dead.
Then we had the funeral and then we were taken to Tanzania. One of my children wanted to come back and I felt that I cannot come back again. I felt that I should rather go further to another area.
So we went to Tanzania and we stayed there until last year, in 1991.
MR SANDI: We have heard what you have just said and it is terrible. What happens to you when you think about this?
MRS MARWANQANA: During the time I just controlled myself because I didn't want to make my enemies happy, so I just pretended to be strong.
MR SANDI: When did you come back? Did you come back when the organisations were unbanned?
MRS MARWANQANA: Yes, we came back in 1991 when the organisations were unbanned.
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MR SANDI: What would you like to happen, what would you wish that the Commission should do?
MRS MARWANQANA: I would like to find out the reason for
the massacre, it was strange because the people had already left the country so that they can be safe from them, but they kept on following them.
And ultimately they killed him. We'd like to find out who sent them, did they obey orders or was it done through their own individual interest because there were 42 people who died and there were 12 who were Lesotho residents.
The other thing I would like to be assisted with the children who are attending school.
MR SANDI: Did you say you had four children who survived?
MRS MARWANQANA: Yes, one of my daughters is in Holland and the other three are still here.
MR SANDI: How old are they?
MRS MARWANQANA: Yolanda the one who was left behind by her mother, is 14 years old. The other one is 19 years and the other one is 16 years.
MR SANDI: Where are they?
MRS MARWANQANA: They are in my house, they depend on me.
MR SANDI: Is that all that you can give us?
MRS MARWANQANA: Yes, that is all that I can tell you.
MR SANDI: Thank you. Thank you very much.
REVD TUTU: Are there any questions Dr Ramashala? Please keep quiet.
MS RAMASHALA: Are any of the three ladies receiving any kind of financial assistance? Is there any assistance or financial assistance that you receive from anywhere?
MRS MARWANQANA: No, I don't receive any assistance, but the children receive a grant. The children receive a grant. PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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I have a gentleman who is a general dealer who gives me credit, so that I can get groceries on credit. I believe my account is R1 000-00 but he also always assists me.
MS RAMASHALA: Thank you.
REVD TUTU: I don't know what to say to you ladies. We cannot highlight the importance of your contribution. We cannot utter the words of thanks, we have been listening to stories and you always, each time you listen to the other one you believe that there can't be anything beyond that one.
But each case has its individuality. Although we know that we are weak, I'd like us to try and say may God comfort you. We'd like to thank you for the courage that you were able to come here and express your feelings to the public as you have done now, today.
God's ways are very strange, we do not know what made you survive. We cannot even state that it is through our will that we are now saying there is change in our country, but we can emphasise the fact that we would like to express gratitude to those who sacrificed their lives. We are now bearing fruits of their struggle.
And also the way in which you carried this burden alone for quite a long time. May God bless you, may you get strength, may God be with you. We'd like to thank you very much.
We are finished today, we will start again at 9 am tomorrow. Please stand.
