CHAIRPERSON: And if our next witness could also please, in the meantime, come to the stand. That is Mrs Baby Langa. Mr Tom Manthata will be assisting you in the leading of evidence, giving your testimony. Mrs Langa, just before we start will you please just stand in order to take the oath.
BABY LANGA: (Duly sworn in, states).
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You can speak into the microphone. If you will just tell us who the lady with you is.
MS LANGA: She is my cousin.
CHAIRPERSON: And her name please.
MS LANGA: Pardon.
CHAIRPERSON: What is her name?
MS LANGA: Paulina Ledwaam.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We would also welcome her and thank her for accompanying you to the stand. Mr Manthata will be leading you through the evidence, but just before we start. If you will excuse me a second. I have just been informed that our statement takers are available in the foyer for any of the people in the audience that would like still to make statements. Anybody else that has not made a statement in connection with the experience of the 33 years from 1960 to 1993. So you are welcome, any of you, to approach any of them throughout the day. Mrs Langa, sorry for the interruption and Mr Manthata will assist you. Tom,
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please.
MR MANTHATA: Mrs Langa I will ask you to tell us about the disappearance of your son Vincent.
MS LANGA: Thank you. My son Vincent disappeared on his birthday in 1977. It was on the 16th of February when he left. I heard it from someone where he was going. One guy came to me and asked me whether Vincent is gone or not and I was surprised, asking myself where has he gone to? I said to him he did not tell me where he was going and he said Vincent is going, he is leaving. I said where is he going? He said Vincent is one of the people who is fighting for freedom in this country. During that evening I went to Vincent's room. I asked him where he was going and I was surprised and was afraid because maybe he thought whether I am going to tell the police or not because I was disturbed about hearing that he is going to leave. He said to me, you cannot understand Mama. Do not be disturbed. When I leave this country look at the people who died, the many children who died and many people who died in Sharpeville. I will be like them if I can stay here and he said I will go to Zambia. Maybe I can meet my sister and then I just kept quiet.
The following morning and then he left. He left on that day in 1977. I think it was on the 16th of February I received a letter. What I got from the letter, Boers use to come to my house and harass me. They use to kick the doors, enquire from me to go to my family to people to ask whether Vincent writes to us or not or whether he comes to us or not. After that we were kicked out of the house and they said they are selling the house. There was another one superintendent who is called Saluse in charge of Block F in
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Mamelodi and he came to me and said our house is being sold and he said I should sign another paper, another document and he said how many are we who were there in the office. Then I said you sent us letters and you said to us that the house is being sold because of you and my relatives said they are going to work because if you do not sign we are going to work, but the paper did not have anything on it. They took us, they evicted us. I went to Mrs Minaar who was in charge of Legal Aid and if she telephoned the Superintendent. She requested to know what is in the document which we signed. She also wrote a letter to Spits who is in Mamelodi and she asked why are you evicting this person from that house and she is having a baby. Where do you expect her to go?
I went to Soshanguve, I was confused. The Special Branch was harassing me, they were after me. They were not looking for Vincent only, they were looking also for my sister. They were asking me about my sister. They harassed me. In 1992 when Mandela was released I thought maybe I would see my son coming back from exile only to find out he is not coming back. I was asking, trying to inquire where I can get assistance, where I can find my son. One person phoned me from Eersterus telling me to go to Mangena who went away with your son. The ANC people are coming to come and tell Mangena's mother that her son died in Angola. It was on Saturday. I called Mr Motlhala. I went there as if I am going to pass my condolences to her and then I said I was expecting my son to come back and that, and even your son could have died. The same mother, her son told her that he is coming back after three years and he did not come back and now she was surprised that her son died in exile in
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Angola. She told me that that ANC people are coming and then I said, okay, I will wait for them to ask them where my son is.
They came. It was Mr Maleka and Mrs Matlhatsi and their driver whom I do not know the name. Then they told the mother that we are very sorry to come here without any having anything in our hands to wipe your tears. They told her that her son died in Angola. After that and then I asked them too. Michael Mangena left with Vincent Langa. He left with my son. What about my son, do you know anything about my son and they asked me what is the name and I said it is Vincent Langa. They looked at each other and I started being suspicious. The woman said Vincent, they said we have got many Vincents in our list in Shell House. We are going to look if that Vincent is Langa and we are going to call you back. They have a phone at home and I said I do have a phone and even that whether I do have a phone and they said they are going to call me on Monday. I waited on Monday, they did not phone and Tuesday and I called them on Wednesday. I asked them I am still waiting for you to call, to give me a call to tell me about my son and they said they are very sorry. Your son died in Russia in the political school on the second of November 1978. So we did not want to call you on Monday to tell you telephonically. We thought we will come there and tell you personally. I wanted to ask them why and then they dropped the phone. They said they are going to come to my place. I was confused. I had two children who were still very young and no one was there to assist me or to comfort me.
After three months they came. They told me that Vincent died in Russia on the second of November 1978. He
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killed himself, he committed suicide, he shot himself. When I, when they said he shot himself I said why did you not inform me for so many years? They said to me we are not able to inform you because the whites were harassing you. We did not have that chance to can inform you. We are having the same problem. In 1992 when Mandela was released many people were celebrating and I asked them why did they not tell me that time in 1992? You know they said many people use to change their addresses. They forgot that when they phoned me before I called them, they forgot that they told me that, they said they found him, he was coming from Mamelodi. His name was Vincent Sedla, but when they came at home they forgot that they told me that they located the address and I asked them why in 1992 did they not tell me because many people were being told and they told me that because many people change their addresses. I told them that last you told me that you are Mrs Matlhatsi, you said is coming from Mamelodi and his name which he used when he left is, the alias name is Polchowa and his real name is Vincent Tshaka. They said to me, Mama, they say they went there because we have already been effected and they were having my phone numbers.
When they arrived there they came to my house. They said the apologise because they said they asked me what is your relationship with Humphrey Langa. I said is one of our family members. They said do you know where he is and I knew and then I said he was in Lusaka, but now I do not know where he is. They said to me will you, I asked them can I find the death certificate and they said, no, in Russia they cannot give you a death certificate unless we get it through our lawyers. I said to them, yes, through those lawyers.
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You cannot come here and tell me that my son is dead without anything which indicate that my son is dead. They said they were going to try to talk to their lawyers to who can find the death certificate. They left, they did not come back again. I was having their business card and I telephoned them. They said to me, you must be patient, Mama. We are still trying, just try to be patient.
Then I went to Mr Mavundla who is a lawyer, an attorney. I gave him my statement, the statement which I have just given you here, and he said he is going to fax and then he said he is going to inform me about the progress. I went back home. After a month or two I telephoned Mavundla again, no, I went to him and to ask him about the progress. He said, and he said I faxed to them, but they said they are still busy with you. He said I already closed your file, but I will open it again. I will also fax another letter to Winnie Mandela. Until when I heard about the Truth Commission and then I went to the Truth Commission and gave my statement to the Truth Commission, Winnie Mandela did not answer me and Shell House was called by Maggie Friedman.
Then this man telephoned Shell House. After some few days I met Mrs Naidoo in Shell House. I gave her my statement. Mrs Naidoo surprised me. She asked me, she asked me the relationship between me and Mr Langa who was in Zambia and I said to her, I was asking myself the question why are these people asking me about this person. I said to them this is one of our family members. She asked me what is the name by the way and I knew the name. I said, no, I have forgotten the name and she went to another office to look in another document. She said Humphrey. That is where PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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I started realising that the ANC, that the ANC assist you, they look into your status, they undermine a person if you are just suffering there is no way where you are going to and I think I am finished.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you Mrs Langa. During that time when Vincent left was he working or was he still a student?
MS LANGA: He was working at Siemens Poetiespoort.
MR MANTHATA: I think it is a family member. You are talking about someone who was in exile. Is Victoria Langa. Her name is Victoria Langa. Is Victoria back?
MS LANGA: No, she is not back, but she came back and she left her with the Langa surname. She went there with her husband. We call her Victoria Langa because when she left she was not married. She is in America. She is not back here in the country.
MR MANTHATA: What about Humphrey? Is Humphrey back? Humphrey Langa.
MS LANGA: Humphrey Langa is back. He was in the Union Building. I think he is in the Union Building. He is back in this Parliament. He is working with, for them.
MR MANTHATA: Maybe they, they thought maybe you know about the death of Vincent, I mean Humphrey.
MS LANGA: No, they did not tell me that Humphrey know anything about the death of Vincent. They were just asking me whether I know him or not and then I said I do not know him because I thought Humphrey, because he was in Parliament, maybe they wanted to know if I know him better maybe I will get a chance to go to him. When I asked him about Vincent they started looking at each other. I think they knew that Vincent died in 1978, but they were asking themselves there is no one who, they did not want anyone to
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know that Vincent died. They wanted it to end up there.
MR MANTHATA: Your knowledge of Vincent before he left, was he a member of any political organisation?
MS LANGA: Vincent, before leaving the country, he was a person whom in 1976 where the youth of Mamelodi starting to riots, he was a person who was just looking at them. I knew nothing about him politically.
MR MANTHATA: You, but you said you knew something about Vincent sometimes while he was maybe, he was disappointed or frustrated. Do you think that he is a person who was going to kill himself?
MS LANGA: No, I do not know that when he was exile, the way he was, the manner in which he was here in the country, I do not think it is a person who was going to commit suicide. He never showed some signs of being a person who is going to commit suicide.
MR MANTHATA: You said something about the ANC. What do you think that the Commission can do to force the ANC to answer you, your complaints?
MS LANGA: I think the Commission can help me to ask the ANC a film, how he killed himself, where and what was the cause for him committing suicide.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Langa. Any other questions? Nothing from Mrs Sooka. Dr Ally.
DR ALLY: In your testimony, Mrs Langa, you speak about your son going, saying to you that he was going to go to Zambia, your sister in Zambia. Is that what you said? Did you have a sister in Zambia? When you were speaking a few minutes ago you said that before your son left he spoke to you and he explained to you that he was leaving the country because he feared that the police would kill him. You then said
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that he said he would go to a sister in Zambia. Is that correct, did you have.
MS LANGA: Yes, he told me that I would not understand him knowing that he knew that I knew nothing about politics. So he wanted me to relax and by saying that he is going to my sister.
DR ALLY: Your sister, it was your sister who lived in Zambia?
MS LANGA: Yes, it was my younger sister, my older sister.
DR ALLY: And what was she, was she living in Zambia or what was the reason for her being in Zambia?
MS LANGA: She went into exile with her husband.
DR ALLY: And did he ever make contact with her? Did you ever discover that, Vincent?
MS LANGA: ... that she looked for Vincent in Botswana and in other African countries, but she did not find him.
DR ALLY: I wonder if you understood me correctly. Did Vincent perhaps ever make contact with her? Do you know, with your sister in Zambia?
MS LANGA: Do you mean before he left? Actually they never met. Even before he left the country he did not tell me anything about my, I do not really know because he would have told me that he received her letter, that he talked to her.
DR ALLY: And did you ever find out why Vincent went to Russia? Did he go and study or did he go for military training? Do you have any reason why he was actually in Russia?
MS LANGA: The ANC told me that he was at the political school.
DR ALLY: Thank you.
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CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Langa, thank you very much. I have no follow-up questions. We have already referred your statement to the ANC offices and we will again follow-up in the course of our activities. We will see what we can find out and we will be reporting to you. Thank you much, thank you very much for telling us your story and thank you to your cousin, Paulina, for having come with you. Thank you very much.
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