DR RANDERA: Mr Mbalati, good afternoon. We are very glad that you could come. We know that you are not well, so we won’t keep you too long. If you’ll just stand to take the oath. If you can just repeat after me. I swear that the story I’m about to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
STRANGER MBALATI: (sworn states)
MR MANTHATA: Mr Mbalati, who has accompanied you ? The one on your ...
MR MBALATI: It’s Andrew Hlongwane. It’s a friend.
MR MANTHATA: Mr Mbalati, I would like that we take our story guiding one another. I see here according to your statement, you were detained with Isaac Ditsego in Alexandra. Do you still remember when this was ?
MR MBALATI: Yes I remember.
MR MANTHATA: And you were taken to Sandton. Can you tell us how you were treated at Sandton police station ?
MR MBALATI: In Alexandra. So, Isaac Ditsego was one of the operatives of MK and then he was under a very serious surveillance. So, the following day after I have arrived at his place the police came looking for Isaac Ditsego. It was about ten o’clock so, together with Isaac we were discussing politics of the ANC and by that day I was coming from a doctor somewhere in Naledi then I was supposed to be taken and moved out from my, Isaac Ditsego’s place. Unfortunately the people who were to take me away from Isaac Ditsego’s place delayed. Then the police came. It was at about one a.m. Well, they arrived in numbers. They knocked. The door was opened so Isaac came out from his bedroom. They began by inquiring a lot of information from Isaac. While asking him a lot of questions he was beaten up brutally. While some were busy with Isaac they, some turned to me. They wanted to know who am I and why I was at his, Isaac’s place. Well I claimed that I was his cousin and I paid a visit since it was June during school holidays but they were not convinced. They suspected I was a terrorist, so, I refused. However they started dealing with me brutally. The same way they were beating Isaac Ditsego.
After a long time were taken to Alexandra police station, together with Isaac. From Alexandra we were taken to Sandton police station where we were detained but to my surprise a lot of comrades were arrested with a very short space of time. So, during the process there at Sandton the police were not yet having a very good information about myself. Whether I belonged to the unit of Isaac Ditsego and his comrades or not. So torture began the following day, because they demanded to know a lot of informations about some of the operations which were carried out by Nchabaleng unit. So, I wasn’t not interested about anything concerning the operations of the unit Nchabaleng. So, the police thought that maybe I was hiding. They said now you are not co-operative. Then you don’t even know how to behave in the process of interrogation. So, if you don’t co-operate, we are going to deal with you brutally. So, there was a problem, because Isaac had never been informed by myself that I will claim that I’m, I was his cousin. So, there was a clear difference between myself and Isaac. I had never known what Isaac told the police as far as our relationship was concerned So, I was in trouble, because they had a more, they were very much suspicious since they were interrogating myself, I was telling a different story. Isaac was also telling a different story. It is just unfortunate that I cannot explain each and every detail specifically on a point how I was actually tortured.
MR MANTHATA: Okay, don’t worry yourself about that. Then you were taken to John Vorster Square. Do you still remember ?
MR MBALATI: Yes, I remember that.
MR MANTHATA: Were you still with ... Did you know that Ditsego could have been at John Vorster Square with you at the time ?
MR MBALATI: No, I did not know that.
MR MANTHATA: Do you still remember how long you were kept at John Vorster Square ?
MR MBALATI: No, I can’t remember.
MR MANTHATA: You can’t remember. And then you were brought over to Duiwelskloof ? Do you remember how you were brought back to Duiwelskloof ?
MR MBALATI: Yes, I remember.
MR MANTHATA: Were you taken to Duiwelskloof police station or were you just dumped at your home ?
MR MBALATI: I was taken to Duiwelskloof police station.
MR MANTHATA: And do you remember how long you could have been kept at Duiwelskloof police station ?
MR MBALATI: No, I can’t remember but, but I stayed there for quite a long time.
MR MANTHATA: And during that time, could your family visit you ?
MR MBALATI: Ja, there was a time when, when I was given the chance to meet my family.
MR MANTHATA: Did the family ever talk about having instructed a lawyer on your behalf ?
MR MBALATI: No.
MR MANTHATA: Out of these three detentions, how did you eventually feel body wise, mind wise, you know, were you still as strong and ablebodied as you were before ?
MR MBALATI: No, I’m having a serious problem.
MR MANTHATA: Can you relate to us what the problem is ? Take time.
MR MBALATI: I discovered that I’m now suffering from a short memory. And secondly, on my left, on my left shoulder there is a permanent pain. And then physically I always feel weak. I cannot walk long distances which I used to walk before. Basically that is how I feel nowdays.
MR MANTHATA: And when you were released from Duiwelskloof police station, were you ever taken to a doctor ?
MR MBALATI: Ja I once had been taken to a doctor somewhere in Johannesburg.
MR MANTHATA: Yes. Can you remember which year this was ?
MR MBALATI: 1991.
MR MANTHATA: Who had taken you to the doctor ? Could it have been the comrades or could it have been the SACC detainees group ? You know we used to have those groups that cared for the people who were either in detention or who had just come out of detention.
MR MBALATI: I was taken by Alec Nchawalene and Chris Maake.
MR MANTHATA: I see. And you don’t remember where they took you to. That is the doctor who examined you.
MR MBALATI: No, I can’t remember.
MR MANTHATA: You can’t remember. Where, sorry - are you still staying with your parents ?
MR MBALATI: Yes.
MR MANTHATA: Are both your parents still alive ?
MR MBALATI: Yes.
MR MANTHATA: Are there brothers and sisters ?
MR MBALATI: Yes.
MR MANTHATA: Can we say that they are taking good care of you ?
MR MBALATI: I would say yes, but they are having, they are doing it, I may say under duress.
MR MANTHATA: Yes, I think it has to be, because you are in a position where you would love to be free, independent and do your own thing but I think that should be understood. Do you understand why it has to be so ?
MR MBALATI: I can’t understand the last statement.
MR MANTHATA: Okay, I was saying, you were saying, yes under duress or could you say what you mean by that. Under duress ?
MR MBALATI: I’m unemployed presently so I eat anything they buy and then I eat more than that yes.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you, Stranger. I have no further question to raise. I give it back to the Chairperson.
DR RANDERA: Jabulani, can you just tell us what were you doing at the time of your arrest in Alex in 1991 ? Were you working at the time ?
MR MBALATI: I was still a student.
DR RANDERA: Where were you studying and what were you studying ?
MR MBALATI: I was at Bankuna High doing Matric.
DR RANDERA: Okay. And I just want to know, maybe I’ve, I missed it as, as Mr Manthata was asking you questions or when you were talking, you said, at the time of your arrest with Isaac there were many other comrades when you went to Sandton police station. First of all, what happened to Isaac Ditsego and what happened to the other comrades ?
MR MBALATI: As far as I know Isaac Ditsego and his unit were released since there were negotiations between the government and the ANC. They were given short of an indemnity or they were granted bail.
DR RANDERA: Can I ask this last question. You said you went to visit Isaac and in the statement there’s some mention of the Nchabaleng Unit of MK. Were you involved in that yourself ?
MR MBALATI: No, in fact I wasn’t part of Nchabaleng Unit. In fact I was running away from home whereby we carried out some operations.
DR RANDERA: Sorry, I didn’t hear that last part. You were running away from home ?
MR MBALATI: Yes.
DR RANDERA: Because ?
MR MBALATI: Since I was involved here at home with a unit of our own here at home.
DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.
DR ALLY: Stranger, thank you very much for coming. We can all see what the consequences of your torture has been and again I can just repeat what I’ve already said, that, that is one of the areas that the Committee that Mr Manthata serves on, the Rehabilitation and Reparations Committee is looking at very, very closely, is what kind of assistance can be provided to, to people like yourself, both for urgent relief and also the more long term policy on reparations and they have already forwarded a policy document, an urgent interim relief which is, which is being discussed. This will be submitted to the government and they are working on a long term policy but in the immediate term our briefers and one is sitting at the table, that they are in contact with many community organizations, with many government organizations, with non-governmental organisations and I’m sure that they will be able to direct you to some place where you could go in the immediate term for some form of assistance whether it be counselling or whether it be in the form of some kind of medical help but thank you very much for coming and for bringing your case to the Commission and I hope that we will be able to, that we will be able to respond to your needs quite soon. Thank you very much.
That brings us to the end of the hearings for the Northern Province but before people start getting up and wanting to move, I’ll ask you just to be a little patient with us for a few more minutes. There are a couple of announcements we need to make and a couple of people we need to thank and we are then going to ask Father Mc Carthy to close the session with a prayer so, if you would just bear with us for a few more moments, I’m going to ask Mr Manthata just to speak very, very briefly about the follow-up meeting which we’re going to be having in Pietersberg for the Northern Province in May which will be a very important meeting. I’ll ask Mr Manthata just to speak to that very quickly.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you, Mr Chair. We shall be having a follow-up meeting, that is after this exercise of hearing. We would love to hear in collective form, from the people about their experiences, their expectations and to even acquaint them with the document that we so repeatedly referred to, that is the document on Reparations as we are going, as we have already submitted it to the government but even then it is still a draft, because we have to get the opinions of the people right through the country what they think or what they consider adequate measures for reparation. So, on the 3rd of May, the whole of the Northern Province will be holding a meeting in Pietersberg where we shall be expecting to hear from them what reparation processes will be due to them and of course one other sensitive area as we keep talking about here, is whether there would be possibilities of just initiating or talking about the likelihood of reconciliation. It’s not going to be reconciliation itself, as you will bear in mind that we are not talking about a cheap reconciliation and for that matter it will be observed that reconciliation is going to be a process, a process that is based on knowledge of the facts of what happened to our relatives, of what happened to our brothers and sisters and who did what to them and what his intentions were, so that we talk of reconciliation in very specific terms.
And it should be borne in mind that when we talk about reconciliation in the context of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is largely reconciliation between the Blacks and the Whites but we know that it is still very difficult to reach the Whites. I don’t even think that it is because it is that difficult but they are still undergoing a process of self knowledge, self re-assessment and of course that means knowledge of what other people are. That is why some of them are still grappling with the problem of how to understand the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, because some of them believe that it’s a witchhunt. Some of them believe that it is calculated to put the Black people at a high moral ground compared to them and this still gives them a lot of problems, but otherwise the most important thing at that workshop is people will be made acquainted and knowledgeable about the reparation processes that are going to be submitted to the government and later what to expect from the government.
We keep saying that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission does not operate on a cheque book. What we do is to find the needs of the people, more especially what the people would love to have the government do for them and then we submit that to the government. It is the government that is going to materialise, that is going to implement all what you and others shall have proposed to be the ideal way of reparating the people for the sufferings they have sustained during the years of conflict. Thank you. Mr Chairperson.
DR ALLY: Thank you very much. On behalf of my colleagues here at the table, Dr Randera, Mr Manthata and Miss Joyce Seroke, we’d like to say thank you very much to the people of the Northern Province, the volunteers, those who assisted in the process of statement taking, those who assisted us to get to the witnesses and bringing witnesses to the hearings, those who assisted as briefers, as counsellors, those who assisted with transport, the police who provided security, the media, both the national media and the local media which have covered these events.
These have been three very difficult days. We’ve heard very many accounts of very severe violations. We began in Messina and then we moved to Louis Trichardt. To-day we’re here in Tzaneen. There, it is quite clear to us that there are still many, many scars of this conflict. We’ve seen that a lot of the conflict in this area in particular had to do with the imposition of the homeland system; that how that system divided communities, tore communities apart; that those that actually resisted found themselves imprisoned, found their property being destroyed, found themselves being forced into exile; that the youth were forced to come forward to try and defend communities; that many youth actually also left the country; that this part of the country was also a place where people left to go and join the liberation movement in exile to go and join MK. It was also an area, a point at which they entered, came back into the country and there were many casualties. Many deaths during this process of leaving and coming back into the country. All of this has helped us to gain a much better understanding of the nature of the conflict. That by having these hearings and by coming to these areas, we actually get a more human understanding and a more concrete understanding of what happened in our past. That we see the people face to face. We see the survivors, we see the victims, because very often these accounts of the conflicts are in books and books don’t always convey the emotions and the suffering and books also sometimes tend to shut out the voices of the people who were affected.
So these hearings, they provide that opportunity for the victims to come forward and for their voices to be heard and for the experiences to be shared, not only with their communities but with the country as a whole. I want to appeal to those who made statement but who did not appear at the public hearings not to feel that they have in any way been slighted. That their statements as we say repeatedly are as important as the statements of those who appear publicly. That we would really love to have everybody appear at a public hearing but that unfortunately is impossible. We don’t have the time. We don’t have the resources. So we have to select cases which give us an indication of the kinds of violations which were taking place. Which give us some insight into the conflict of that period and that’s the basis on which we choose statements. Not because we think that some people’s cases are more important than others. I want to appeal to people then to continue making statements. There are statement takers in this region. There are designated statement takers. We also have statement takers. If people want to know how to make statements they can contact any member of staff of the Commission at the end of the hearing ... (end of tape)
............................ and it makes it’s recommendations with regard to a policy for victims of gross human rights violations, so people please, understand how important it is for you to make statements. We can only work with the statement which we receive so, if that process can continue that will assist us greatly in our work.
Once again, thank you very much. Hope you have a safe journey back home and I hope that many of you can come to our follow-up meeting in Pietersberg. I’m now going to ask Father Mc Carthy if he will close the proceedings with a prayer. Thank you.
FATHER MC CARTHY: Before the prayer, I would like to say that our Bishop (inaudible) regrets not being here to-day because I know when the Truth Commission started he was head over heals about it and I’m sorry he’s not here but still, he’s still working on it and he wishes you every success and he prays for you that God will enlighten you people in the Commission in the task that still has to be done.
Farther Mc Carthy closes with a prayer.
DR ALLY: Thank you very much and I would have to end. It was remiss of me not thank your own staff for all the work that they have done and thank you very much, Father. And will people please leave the headsets behind. Please leave the headsets behind.
