REVD. XUNDU: We would like now with your permission we would like to swear Mpompi in.
MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: (Sworn duly states).
CHAIRPERSON: We thank Revd. Xundu, and we welcome you Mr Mpompi Melfred Dlokolo before this Commission. You have come to give evidence about yourself and about the way you were tortured and we are going to hand you over to Revd. Xundu who is going to question you on behalf of this Commission.
REVD. XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mpompi, what is your clan name?
MR DLOKOLO: I am Tkisa Nandebi.
REVD. XUNDU: We thank you. Could you tell us briefly about your story. Who are you, where were you born, are you married, do you have children?
MR DLOKOLO: I don't have any wife, I only have someone living with and we have some children. I don't have a wife, I live with someone because but I am considering her as my wife because I have got three children with her. My clan name is Tsana.
REVD. XUNDU: Do you have one person living with you?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, I have one person I am living with.
REVD. XUNDU: Continue with your story.
MR DLOKOLO: My clan name is Tsana Koboyi. I was born of a fat man family.
REVD. XUNDU: Thank you Ndebe. Could we now get into the actual matter? You say in 1995, what were your activities politically?
MR DLOKOLO: I was a member of the Action Committee.
REVD. XUNDU: You have mentioned that you were a "General". What do you mean?
MR DLOKOLO: No, that was just a name I was given - that I was the General.
REVD. XUNDU: You continue to say, could you give us therefore a full picture of what was bothering the people at the time which led to the formation of the UDF. What were the people claiming for? I would like to know how was the situation here in Uitenhage which led to the formation of the UDF? How were the activities politically of the residents here?
MR DLOKOLO: The situation was very bad here in Uitenhage because at the time of my arrival here, I joined people who were politically involved because I felt there was a call for it. One other thing is as an outgoing person I've got friends all over, even in Transkei and East London.
REVD. XUNDU: So what used to happen?
MR DLOKOLO: I'm coming closer to what you want. I came back in July and we were going to play a match on a Sunday, so I came back on a Saturday evening. There were some other men who were in my company.
REVD. XUNDU: Is that just before July. In your statement you have mentioned that one of your duties as a member of the Action Committee was to discourage the operations of the Councillors. What were the names of these Councillors.
MR DLOKOLO: They were Matibesa, Mr Vena and Mr Korbega.
REVD. XUNDU: There is one you have not mentioned, but you have written down in your statement.
MR DLOKOLO: They were Matibesa Kwelega, Mr Vena.
REVD. XUNDU: What about Kinikini?
MR DLOKOLO: No, Kinikini did not live in Despatch, because I live in Despatch.
REVD. XUNDU: But in your statement you have mentioned his name.
MR DLOKOLO: No, I am sorry if I mentioned Kinikini's name, that, I am not making a mistake, I did not mention Kinikini's name.
REVD. XUNDU: Ok. Let us continue. You say you were trying to discourage the operations of the Councillors?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes. We first asked them whether they were handling people properly, why would they go to meetings and not bring a report back to the people and then we disagreed on this matter. We then decided to raid and go for them.
We first met their females and told them that, we asked them whether they say what was happening, but some of them were friends to these Councillors, some of them were scared.
REVD. XUNDU: So, you came back in 1985?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes. There was a police raid and there was the day of the match Wallaby's playing against a certain rugby lot. I wasn't going to play. There is one guy from the Tsinani family that was going to play and the match was going to be very tough and they felt that he was not going to be fit to play, so I decided to play in his place, but I said to him these men are going to go round looking for him.
I was dressed in the rugby uniform and then Herber came driving a white Sierra and he went round and turned somewhere, then there was a yellow Rover.
REVD. XUNDU: Did the match continue?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, it continued and we were being beaten. I said to my co-players. One of them was Smartie Kakula. That match was really fascinating, only to find that it was going to be this incident.
REVD. XUNDU: Alright, let's do it this was Ndebi. Let's now confine ourselves to the actual arrest and you had to stop playing, let's talk about that.
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, I am going to follow that so as not to leave out any points.
So, this ball hit the centre and he fell down and the referee was confused to an extent that he gave the points to us. I then asked our scrum half to pass on the ball and with the intention that I was going to score and I just did exactly that. It was the last time I remembered, because two people came and they held me and they said "Your name is Mpompi", then I said "No, I am not Mpompi", then they asked me to get into a hippo - and these were soldiers - and whilst in that hippo they were talking and I could see that they were talking and I said to them, they are wasting my time, I want to go and play and they said, "No, you will never again have any chance to play, we have got you", then I said "Then you don't know who you are looking for", then someone said, "You should not keep him here in this hippo" -so I gave in.
There is one man who was clapped and fell down and I was very worried, so I handed myself over, I gave my rugby jersey to my player.
REVD. XUNDU: Then you were arrested Tsana. Just tell us exactly, you were arrested now, what happened?
MR DLOKOLO: I was in a hippo and then I was transferred into the Rover and there were two of the players, one of them, the centre and the wing who were playing in the same match and they were asked "Do you know this person?"
I was asking them not to say they were residents there and I was saying I was coming from Port Elizabeth. We were players in Port Elizabeth together and Gerts came and said the two should alight from the van. We went off, at the police station they did not put me into a cell. They put me outside and I could see if I had attempted to run away, they were going to shoot me because as a Xhosa boy there was something that I was using.
REVD. XUNDU: What is it that you were using?
MR DLOKOLO: There was something that I was using, but this thing is not with me now, I left it in a particular Kombi. So what happened is, whilst I was there, Jimmy came, Jimmy Klaas, and . . .
REVD. XUNDU: What was this Jimmy Klaas?
MR DLOKOLO: Jimmy Klaas was a Uitenhage here in, he was a resident here in Uitenhage, but he used to help the policemen to kill us. He was a businessman. All over he had businesses and he wanted to be the only business. He was a very wealthy man and he said to me "Why did you burn my shop", then I said "I didn't, you don't even know me", and then he said "No, I know who you are, you are Mpompi" - and someone confirmed.
I could hear some cars driving in, these people had come to see this person and when Gerber came, he said "So this is the Mpompi", then another foreigner from Port Elizabeth came - Faleni knows a lot about this - and he could give more information about this. He came and there were three whites with me and they were saying they were going to have a braai and I knew they were referring to me, so I asked for water - I knew this charge office very well, then I went to some place but they kicked me and they asked me "Don't you know where the tap is?"
I wanted to make use of my things so that they should not assault me, but as I was doing that, I was clapped by Faleni, I reversed.
REVD. XUNDU: Were you in Humansdorp?
MR DLOKOLO: No, I wasn't in Humansdorp. I was still here and I had been arrested at 5.00pm and from the police station where they were beating me they took me to a certain river and they dipped me in there. There are some roads there, when I got there, they asked me to alight from the Kombi - there were six cars there.
I have seen some of those men who were there at the time. They are now no longer dressed in their uniform - I don't even care for them.
REVD. XUNDU: What happened?
MR DLOKOLO: They were there, yes, and they are here even now.
REVD. XUNDU: Do you know their names?
MR DLOKOLO: I don't know their names, but they lived here. What happened is that, I can't understand the policemen who are here, don't do anything here, but policemen from other places come and do several things here and then it goes on like that and then if there is a parade and you want to identify the person who has assaulted you, you can't find the person and you are made a fool of.
They asked me to undress and I said "No, I am not going to undress because it is chilly" and I had been so much exposed to cold after playing in the match. There were some of them sitting and Faleni who grew up before me, and he was one of the policemen, he is now a Lft. he was promoted because of what he did to me. He is still a policemen here in Uitenhage, he is working for the special branch. He lives in Dwessie.
When I was released I saw him and he did not realise it was me.
REVD. XUNDU: So, what happened?
MR DLOKOLO: They assaulted me. I did not undress. They tore the clothes into pieces. They put me into a white sack and they tied the top, there was a rope that they used, so they would use this rope with a hook.
They said to me I was going to get into this sack and I said to them "No, you are not going to put me into any water, cold as it is", so they asked me "Who were your comrades?" There was a list of names and I was the first on this list followed by Tobula Busako and next was Lulamile Tonsi, there were others like, Makiki, there must have been someone who had given these names to them, because these people did not know us.
I told them I was not going to get into the sack, then they pushed me in by force. I took an advantage that they had handcuffed me then I decided to dive into the water and they kept me under water for some time, but I had breathed in sufficiently, then they kicked me vigorously. I was not crying, they again then dipped me into the water, I again managed but water managed to get in through the mouth and my stomach was full of water and they stamped on my stomach and water came out of my mouth and I was crying.
I kept on pleading with Faleni, that "Oh, you as black as you are, why do you torture me like that?" and Faleni said - Faleni again dipped me into the water for the third time and they kept me under water for some time and I stayed there. I gave in, I was kicking in this sack and I was uncomfortable. I was trying to send a message that I couldn't breathe any longer, so they took me out and they took me out of the sack and put me outside.
I looked at where they were standing, but I was not intending to run away because there were many of them. They took out a gas stove and they had a braai as they had indicated earlier. I asked that I wanted to relieve myself and that was a mistake, they asked me to lie on this sack and they pressed me on the stomach and then water came out through all the openings - they braaied and they asked me to dress up, so what happened is that they gave me a blanket that they had got from somewhere and they covered me and put me in the back seat of the car.
There were many cars driving in still - and we were driving towards town, driving to Uitenhage. It was dark, at about 8.00pm. I thought we were coming here only to find that they were on the Durban road. I could not even see anyone that I could talk to. I thought they were now going to kill me.
We drove past Nboshleli location towards Rocklands and facing Jeffreys Bay. When we got to Jeffreys there was an old white man who was going to take care of me, because what they were doing is they were transferring people from one place to the other.
I still remember some people from Knysna, I would meet in Orange Free State. Whilst I was still in the van a Kombi drove and all the other cars followed. We were getting to Humansdorp and when we got to that destination, again we met another white old man who directed us to a cell and there had been a white man who had committed suicide and I could see his hair and I could not sleep. I even had to talk aloud because of fear and say "I am not responsible for your death" - I could not sleep until morning, because I was scared. This old man asked whether I was not hungry, so he bought food for me.
REVD. XUNDU: Now, let's agree you were there for a week and then they came for you?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes.
REVD. XUNDU: What happened thereafter?
MR DLOKOLO: They again took me and tortured me that other side. There is a farm not far from Humansdorp - as you go down there are also some bushes and then we go round those bushes and Faleni said I should go and collect wood. I said "No, I am not going to".
REVD. XUNDU: Is Faleni the only person who you knew?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, Faleni was the only black amongst whites. One of these white policemen was from Port Elizabeth.
These were the two people who were torturing me. Faleni was asked to accompany me to go and collect wood so that they could make a braai, because we were heading for Uitenhage. Then I refused, I said there is grass, there is no wood. I didn't even plead, I just refused, so they made their braai next to the Kombi, then I had my thing, I was holding it fast and I was sure they were not going to do anything to me. So, we went to the police station, that is where I was going to take an oath, before Kayamier who could see - Kayamier was a Judge in Humansdorp and the could see that I was bleeding.
REVD. XUNDU: Is it not Kanemeyer, or is it Kayamier? I know him very well, so you went there to take an oath?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes. Then I said "No, I am not going to take any oath, because I know nothing", so they said rather than you being kept in custody there are people who are going to give evidence against you, you remember that all the people in the location were arrested. I remembered that, but I was not one of those, because I had this protection that I had.
The people who were arrested on a Tuesday . . .
REVD. XUNDU: So you took an oath ultimately?
MR DLOKOLO: No, I did not.
REVD. XUNDU: What happened?
MR DLOKOLO: I was transferred from there to Uitenhage and some of the people who were there, who were coloureds, are still here today - in this hearing - and I was sentenced.
REVD. XUNDU: In what court were you sentenced?
MR DLOKOLO: I was sentenced in a Regional Court.
REVD. XUNDU: Where was the sitting?
MR DLOKOLO: Here in Uitenhage. I was sentenced to 23 years in jail.
REVD. XUNDU: What was the charge actually?
MR DLOKOLO: It was a charge of a school, a hall and a beer hall.
REVD. XUNDU: How many years did you serve out of the 23?
MR DLOKOLO: I served seven months.
REVD. XUNDU: When were you released?
MR DLOKOLO: I was released in 1991.
REVD. XUNDU: How were you released?
MR DLOKOLO: We were released at the time the President was released, when the political prisoners were released. There used to be lawyers coming to us and they would ask where we came from and so on.
REVD. XUNDU: So, you are out now and you have come to the Commission. What is your wish. What do you want this Commission to do for you.
MR DLOKOLO: My problem is that, even now, when this Kombi came to fetch us, they found me with my mother . . .
REVD. XUNDU: And what about your living-in?
MR DLOKOLO: No, she has got her own house now.
REVD. XUNDU: So, you know live with your mother?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, but the person I live with sometimes visits me. I get some part-time jobs and some other times she sells vegetables.
REVD. XUNDU: What is your wish then?
MR DLOKOLO: It is that if you could take care of me and my children, because I have got a problem with my rib. I was on treatment, but the place were I get this treatment is very far and I don't have the money. I have got three children.
REVD. XUNDU: What is the mother to the children doing and what is your mother doing?
MR DLOKOLO: My mother has got a pension and she is still very strong and she is mentally disturbed to an extent that people have got to take care of her.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi.
MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
This Mr Gerber you mentioned, is it the same as the same one as mentioned by Mrs Vena earlier on?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes.
MR SANDI: Another name you mentioned is Jimmy Klaas, is that so?
MR SANDI: Is there any other name that Jimmy Klaas has?
MR DLOKOLO: Yes, his other name is Ntzozo, but he is trying to play coloured.
CHAIRPERSON: Mpompi Melfred Dlokolo we thank you for your evidence as submitted before this Commission and even everything you said in your story and we are going to take note of everything to an extent that we shall get to some agreement or decision and if there is any further investigation to be done we shall come back to you. For now we should say thank you.
