MEMBER OF PANEL: Mr Chairperson we would like to call Nancy Xatula. We would like Nancy Xatula to come and take the stand. I would like to welcome Mrs Xatula. When other people were giving evidence especially when Ms Langa was giving her own evidence the name of Leo Xatula was also mentioned. Many people sacrificed their lives and you are one of the woman who suffered in South Africa. You also sacrificed for this country for its liberation. I am going to allow you to take an oath.
NANCY XATULA: (Duly sworn in, states).
MEMBER OF PANEL: Thank you.
MEMBER OF PANEL: We greet you Mrs Xatula. We want to apologise for keeping you for quite a long time. We know that you are not very well, but we want to show our gratitude for your patience. We believe that you are going to give evidence about your son who was here at UNITRA. You last saw him in 1983 if I am not mistaken and then you saw him again when he was already deceased and you received the information that he was killed by the police of the old regime in the Transkei. We would like you to give us a picture of who was Leo and then give us background. We would like to know much about you.
MRS XATULA: I am Tombisonkie Miss Xatula and I was married to the Honono family. Out of my nine children Leo was my
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
2 N XATULA
first born. He was brought up here at Umtata by his aunt and he also attended school here in Umtata. He passed standard ten in St Johns College.
Leo use to disappear and we would not know his whereabouts, but I heard rumours because I had some information that he was involved in some activities. In 1981 Leo disappeared permanently and we learned that he was in Cape Town, but nobody ever specified where exactly was he. In 1982 my sister came to report that Leo is nowhere to be found. I heard rumours from one of the gentlemen who use to talk about him, it was Pandile Gisan. I came here in Umtata and I tried to locate this gentlemen. Fortunately I saw him when he was just following me because he saw me also. We talked and discussed and I wanted to know what was going on. He use to say young aunt when he addressed me and then he said I would go again. I am here, but I am now employed. I will come back again after a long time. I will be working at sea. Again, I realised that Leo was thinking of doing something. I said to him please communicate even if you go wherever you go, please maintain contact. He disappeared.
In 1983 he went to attend one of the ceremonies which was an initiation ceremony of the other boys in the community and that was the last time when he bade farewell to me. My sister said the police use to visit him. They usually wanted to know whether they know where Leo is. I was surprised, but I did not take much consideration of all what was happening. I did not inform them of what was happening, even my family. In 1988 June one girl Nokuku called me on my way from school. I was a teacher at the time. I was teaching at Qumbu. This girl, I knew her to be
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
3 N XATULA
Impisana, but during the reign of Matanzima most of the children would change their surnames and would go and pretend to be related to the Matanzimas. I was surprised because Nokuku also said she was Matanzima. Nobody knew that she was Impisana family. Many youth were always communicating with this girl and she use pretend as if she has befriended them. I met this girl again and she asked me when did last see Leo. I said I last saw him quite a while ago. ... west coast and at Bizana. This girl said please hide his photographs and just tell them that all the relatives that have the photos should hide them because he is wanted. This perturbed me for quite a long time.
We learnt that there were people who were terrorists. We all knew that the people who use to cross the borders were labelled as terrorists. I was also having the impression that Leo might be amongst those people who were alleged to be terrorists. In June at the same time I met Nomabuta who is my sister. She was with Mrs Gonie who is Ms Makippie is also, is a teacher here in Umtata. They came to Qumbu where I was staying. I could assess that they have brought bad news and I asked them because I was not familiar with them. I did not always have visits from them. So at the end they said we must come and tell you what happened. They said there is a young man who is killed. There is a policeman who is Boy and this policeman claimed that it was Leo who was killed. He had to be identified. The first question I asked why did they come to you. She said I do not know. I asked did you come to report officially or did she just come because she was in Kanduli because my sister was married there. She said I am not quite certain that this was an official report. It was said there was an
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
4 N XATULA
unrest in Bizana and then he died there. I did not know what to do and then during that period the people were collected.
When I looked outside I could see that there was one gentlemen in one of the cars. It was a white Skyline and I said I must try to find out much from this lady. I did not believe that Leo is dead. I asked whose car is this? He said, no, Boy gave this to us. Who is driving? It is Blackcat Nombanga. He was a policeman in the Security Department. They told me the day when we were supposed to go and identify Leo. My sister and Ms Makippie left my place and I asked the people to be with me for quite a while because I wanted to make some telephone calls. I did not even know to whom should I report this. I did not know with whom should I communicate and I knew that the minute you have people who are labelled as terrorists you were also regarded as a dog. I thought for a while and I thought of this Dumisa Ntsebeza. I have never met him, but I just learnt that this Dumisa was also being arrested. I knew that he was a lawyer. I just wanted to know how could I meet him. I took the directory and looked up his telephone number. Fortunately I could get the telephone number, it was a bit late. I phoned him at phone and then I was asked who I was. I identified myself and then I was given information that I should wait for seven minutes. A few minutes thereafter I phoned again. He answered the telephone. He wanted to know more about me and then we communicated telephonically. He asked me did I know the office where they were working. I said no. He even asked do you know me personally. I explained that I never met you. He said, no, you cannot communicate everything
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
5 N XATULA
telephonically. I just mentioned that there is this nephew of mine who is now late.
Very early in the morning I went to the office. I waited for him, this Ntsebeza. One young gentlemen came in. He was dressed in a denim. I did not even recognise that it could be Dumisa Ntsebeza and then I asked him from the others and then I was informed that it was this lawyer that I wanted him. Then we discussed and then at the end I said I would go and identify Leo. We found this Blackcat. One of his friends, the friend to Leo was also a runaway because he was wanted by the police.
MEMBER OF PANEL: I would like us to go back so that I can not disturb you further. You said in the beginning that you knew when he disappeared. Where did he use to go?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I knew because I knew that he was involved in the struggle.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Who was the sister who was here in Umtata, with whom she was staying?
MRS XATULA: It was Namabatla.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Where is she now?
MRS XATULA: She is still at her place.
MEMBER OF PANEL: During the time when you were going to identify the body, with whom were you travelling?
MRS XATULA: I travelled with Mrs Gonie with the security car and they said they were borrowed by this Blackcat.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Is it the second time that they visited you with the car?
MRS XATULA: Yes. We went along together, but we were in our own car and then I was ordered to go together with my sister in this car belonging to the Security Officers. I was surprised to listen to the songs which are, which were
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
6 N XATULA
taped and were in the recorder. I did not associate these songs with the Security Officer because as there was a one piece which was born to suffer. This hurt me a lot. I really could not associate the police officers with these types of songs because they were freedom songs.
We reached the destination at Bizana at the security and we did not go where Leo was. We were forced to go to the Security Officer. Blackcat informed us that that is where we are going to know where Leo was. Before we reached Bizana I asked who killed Leo and how was he killed? This gentleman said to me there was a coincidence. He was got by a stray bullet otherwise the bullet was not directed to him. It was just there was a skirmish in Bizana and the police were just shooting.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did he tell you who shot your nephew?
MRS XATULA: Yes. I want to mention that Aga's mother also came and she said to me, please if you go and identify your nephew, please try to identify and find out if you can find my son. There was another lady also who said I must also identify Lizo, her son. All these were the children who disappeared. Lizo is now on, is on a wheelchair. He did not die. We reached our destination and then the police who were in the offices came out. There were two Boers. They were always amongst the other policemen. I asked Blackcat who could be responsible for the death of my nephew. He said I was present, but it was not me. Just accept what I am saying to you that a stray bullet just hit him. The policemen that we were together with are those who are at Bizana. I asked him who was the other one who was there? He said Damasa was one of them. He took me to Dumisa. I asked Ndabisa what happened. He repeated the same story and UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
7 N XATULA
said it was a coincidence. It was a stray bullet that hit Leo because they were looking for one of the boys, not Leo.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did he tell you whom they were looking for?
MRS XATULA: No, I was informed when I reached the mortuary.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Who were they looking for?
MRS XATULA: The codename of this was Zola. Mine was Zolilie, my nephew. My nephew would say he is Zolilie Mesekwa, that was his codename. I knew that Zola was not his real name during the time when we went to bury my nephew. His real name was Mfundo. He was Mfundo Faku.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Then what happened after you came out of the Security Offices?
MRS XATULA: We went to the hospital in the mortuary. When I got there I was allowed to get inside and I found another policeman who was called Gilile. I think he was the Station Commander. When I got in the mortuary I could see a person in the corner, but he was covered with a sheet. I could see that this one was shot and you could see that he was a bit stout. His feet were out, but you could see that his feet were very shot. I was ordered that I should go and identify that one. When I looked, before I could even look him on the face I could see that his feet were not belonging to Leo and then I was ordered to go out if I said it was not him.
When I went out Blackcat approached me. He said please you must not cry. I am appealing to you, please, just ask very properly and try to get as much information as possible. Try to identify, please do not cry because we will not be able to identify him very well. After some time I was given an opportunity to get inside. There were two other bodies. The second body was also covered with the
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
8 N XATULA
sheet, but I could see the feet were also exposed. When I looked through, I just looked through and I could see and identify Leo with his feet. Then I said the feet belong to him, but I was going to look and identify him. Then I tried top identify. When I looked his hands I could see that the rigour was setting in. When I looked at the hands and the feet I could see that they really belonged to him. I started to uncover him and I could see that one eye was open and his mouth was also open. It was really Leo. The only difference was that he had no moustache before he left our place, but now he had beard and a moustache, but I could identify him and see that it was Leo.
When I was looking at him I could only see one scar which was on the forehead. I wanted to know what was the cause, what hit him on the forehead. You could see that there was a depression here and you could see that he was cleaned already and there was a plaster which was covering the wound. Nobody answered me. I looked the throat and I could see that he appeared to have been hung. It seemed as if he was, he had hanged. You could see scars and visible marks on the throat and I received no response and nobody cared to reply me. When I looked at the arms I could see that, you could see that there were fractures. You could see black scars on the arms especially the upper arms. Each time I wanted to know what caused these and nobody ever responded to me and then I was very angry. I removed the cover and threw it aside. When I looked at the eye on the, in the nipple on the left side you could see that something was oozing and then I turned him over, but you could see that there was a very small hole. I asked them did you use any sharp instrument to pierce him or was he stabbed and
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
9 N XATULA
nobody answered me. I looked at the ankles and you could see that he was fastened. There were scars. The other leg seemed to have fractured. The first thing I prayed, but I can just say I insulted them severely, I used the most abrasive language that I could think of. I could see that they were frightened because I was not closing my eyes. I was just insulting them and talking about the atrocities that they were inflicting on people. One policeman Gilile answered and said he was shot. I asked him who shot him and he said I do not know. I just saw the body here. I asked him why do you come and inform me that he has been shot and then you say you do not know. He did not give me an accurate answer. At the end I went out.
I would like to mention and say there are many, there are two compartments in this section. On the other section I could see many bodies, they were covered. If I could count I think there were about six or seven. There were not less than six, but they were not above seven.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you know whose bodies were these?
MRS XATULA: I knew these bodies for after a while when I was always going to the inquest, it is when we came back with Blackcat from Bizana. I asked him who are the others? He said they were the people who were together with Leo when he was shot dead.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you remember any name?
MRS XATULA: I can remember Mike's name, but I did not know his surname. I cannot remember all of their names, but I remember the other one was from the Mako family and then they asked me did I know any people from the Mako family. I said I did not know anybody from the Makos. They also asked me about the people from the Madalana family and then
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
10 N XATULA
I said, no, I did not know anybody from the Madalana family.
MEMBER OF PANEL: After you identified the body what happened?
MRS XATULA: We went back to the Security Officers. The first thing that I was informed by Ndabisa is he said I must forget about burying Leo. He will receive the paupers burial because the body belongs to the Government. Secondly, they said we will bury him, but I would advise you to agree to this arrangement. Thirdly, you must never make a mistake and say after you identified this body you are going to lodge a complaint against anybody. I said, no, I will not do that and they also said they will do the post mortem. I must not take any trouble to do that and then they said they are going to give me, they offered me
R50 000,00. I said, no, there is no price that could pay the death of my child.
MEMBER OF PANEL: You have been mentioning this Ndabisa for quite a long time. Who is this Ndabisa?
MRS XATULA: He was the policeman who was working in Bizana.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Is he still here?
MRS XATULA: No, I also see him at Botosicwo here in Umtata. He is promoted.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you mean now?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I am sure if you can go there we can see him. Probably he is on pension now. I cannot be surprised, but last year I saw him there. He was at Botosicwo.
MEMBER OF PANEL: I would like you to continue. After you identified the body, let us go to the funeral arrangement. I do not think we should jump this incidence.
MRS XATULA: There was a period when we tried to get the body and we were denied access to the body.
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
11 N XATULA
MEMBER OF PANEL: Okay, you can go on.
MRS XATULA: Okay we tried. Dengana was amongst those who did not want us to get the body. They did not even want us to get our own doctor so that he can the post mortem. It was Dr Clarkman. It was a long struggle. They did not want us to have our doctor. Fortunately, I got the lawyers who were very strong and then I was informed that the doctor was supposed to go and do the post mortem. I was also informed about the date. We have been offered cars that we are going to be fetched and be taken during the post mortem. We were also informed that we will be accommodated in a hotel and Blackcat said he would come and fetch us. I said, no, I will never enjoy that. I did not go to the car even when they came and fetched me.
The day on which the post mortem was supposed to be done Dr Clarkman did not come. He waited here at Umtata and the police refused to bring the body at Umtata.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What happened?
MRS XATULA: It was very late, it was in the evening. Dengana was blocking the whole process. When the body came we did not know anything about it and then the post mortem was done in the morning and it was discovered that he was really shot dead. It was very difficult to attend the inquest. The first summons which were brought to me were written Nomabata Xatula. It was from the police from the Transkei. I have got that document here. The other one is with the lawyers.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Why do you think they addressed you as Nomabata?
MRS XATULA: I think they were trying to make a conflict between my sister and myself so that I could think that she
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
12 N XATULA
was collaborating with the police. So that is what they, they wanted to create that impression.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Were you able then to relate this to Blackcats relationship?
MRS XATULA: Yes because I had to inform my sister and say please withdraw yourself from the company of Blackcat and the others. When she stopped seeing them they started hating her. There were cars here in Qumbu awaiting for me, but I just chased them away.
MEMBER OF PANEL: After the post mortem what happened?
MRS XATULA: I was given restricted orders. I was given orders when to bury my niece and it was Saturday, Sunday, Monday and I was informed that I should choose one of the days. The Tuesday, between Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. There were orders that by two o' clock everybody should have dispersed by that time. They also stipulated the number of the people who were supposed to attend the funeral. They said it should be about 200. Then I was surprised because I was asking myself am I going to send invitations now to the people so that I can say who should attend the funeral or who should not. We therefore took the body to Dalisas at, after the post mortem.
On that day, it was on a Thursday, probably I might be mistaken. I could say it would appear as if we were burying the high ranking official of the police because the funeral was surrounded by the police. All over the place, over the river at Sika, the police, the soldiers, everybody was turned back because I had prepared the funeral arrangements for Showvery. The coffin was being searched. They said they were looking for grenades. I was surprised and I was asking myself could we really do that to carry the grenade
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
13 N XATULA
in the coffin of our child. Blackcat has turned now. He was just like a puffadder. He was not advising us anymore. He looked to have turned against us. We went to Showvery and then we could see that there were many police. They were trying to do everything in their control. They were taking photos, they were doing everything that was not acceptable according to our culture.
Unfortunately, there were Comrades. The others who were in the struggle, the colleagues to Leo, there were others who were from abroad, those who were coming from Johannesburg they were turned back some of them. I can mention that everybody experienced a horrible experience because people were being assaulted, shamboks were used. Mulowa was carrying a knopkirrie and was dispersing everybody. People were assaulted, wires, rifle butts were used to assault people. I was also taken out of the people, I was removed from the crowd and then they were ridiculing me. The most painful experience was to watch my children being assaulted. I can mention that nobody could throw any soil in the grave. There was only one child who managed to run away.
There was also an order that I should be arrested. When I was taken to the van so that I can be detained Mulowa came to defend me. He asked who is going to bury Leo if you are going to take his aunt away and then they succumbed and then they handed me over to my family. I continued with the coffin, with the burial. The Reverend could not continue with the sermon because there was a lot of disturbance from the police and the South African Defence Force. When we were still busy with the funeral the people were assaulted again. I did not run away because I was very angry. I
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
14 N XATULA
started to insult them again, but at the end I went up and then we went back to my place.
I can mention the people who were assaulted. Songabile Manotwa, he is now a Minister of Parliament. I am sure that he still bears the scars of the assault. Pindile, Lwasie Mashlaka. One gentlemen from the Zibi family he died and then my children. There were many threats. I can just mention that the coffin was not covered with soil. It was just put in the grave and it was difficult to put the soil over. I discovered that during the time of the funeral the coffin fell. Yes, it is so. The police just hit the coffin and it fell. The corpse fell.
MEMBER OF PANEL: During this day, your children, were they also arrested?
MRS XATULA: Yes except my daughter.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you go and look for them?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I went to every prison and then I reached one place and fortunately I found them at Qumbu. What they said is that they were tortured and they were pricked with straight pins whilst they were detained. Kwezi had many wounds. It seems that he was flogged.
MEMBER OF PANEL: You were mentioning threats. Can you tell us about the threats?
MRS XATULA: Yes, the police said we are going to pick your sons one by one because you are a soft target you will be the last one.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you believe them?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I believed, but I had some doubts. I could believe because there were some things that they said during the time when we were waiting for the post mortem to be done. The police would come in and they would just
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
15 N XATULA
insult me. The others knew me and the others did not. During the court proceedings the police had to be taken out of the courtroom because I was asking is it proper to be harassed by the police even during the court proceedings.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What were the results?
MRS XATULA: The results were that he was shot whilst he was sleeping on his back, whilst he was lying on his back because the bullet was found to have gone through his kidneys.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Were they the police who were accused of this?
MRS XATULA: 17 Policemen were identified and then one policeman is supposed to have, who is supposed to have been amongst those was Maklingana, but Wilson Tambo, I am not quite sure whether he was William or Wilson. Wilson Tambo is the one who was said to have been responsible for all this. The other one was from Checha and Jim.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know where these police are?
MRS XATULA: They are here in Umtata. Mtambo, 1989 or 1990 when the inquest was held. It was said he was a Constable at the time, but when we came here in Umtata a few years later, I think it was in 1990, I heard him being addressed as the Major.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Were they the police who were prosecuted for this act?
MRS XATULA: If it did happen or if it is happening this was never reported to us. Even today we do not know what happened both civilly and criminally nothing was reported. This year his case it would be said the court proceedings are at Umzimkulu or the other year it would be said they are in another area. You would never understand exactly what
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
16 N XATULA
was happening.
MEMBER OF PANEL: You talked about the threats that your children would be picked up one by one. Could you please explain further?
MRS XATULA: Those threats were nearly fulfilled. In 1992 one of my sons was shot. It is the one whom I said it is Kwezi. He still has a bullet on his knee. He was shot by the police. Even today that police was never prosecuted.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Why was he shot and where was he shot?
MRS XATULA: He was alighting from a combi at Qumbu and then I was called by the people and they informed me that he was in Umtata hospital.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Did they report why he was shot?
MRS XATULA: No reason was given to me. I believe he was just shot for no apparent reason. When I asked why was he shot they just wanted to arrest me because they said I must tell where Kwezie was. I could not give them the details of what happened to Kwezie. I was just making enquiries about my son who was shot.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know the police who did that?
MRS XATULA: They said it was Dululu. I do not know the surname. I think at the time he could be traced, but I am not quite sure now.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Was there anything which happened to your children?
MRS XATULA: Kwezie was arrested several times. At times he would be at Biki and other times he would go to other prisons. When he was supposed to appear in Court I would be arrested also or Kwezie would be arrested. Kwezie was shot again in 1994 in August. As I am here now I can mention that he is suffering from epilepsy. I was chased by the
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
17 N XATULA
police because they wanted to finish him off.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know who shot him?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I know the police.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know his name?
MRS XATULA: Yes.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Who is he?
MRS XATULA: It is Loyisi Mdinkie.
MEMBER OF PANEL: After that what happened?
MRS XATULA: I am still not happy even today. I have got another son who was shot at Tsolo. It was April on the 22nd 1994. His case was never followed up.
MEMBER OF PANEL: How was he injured?
MRS XATULA: He died.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What about your daughter?
MRS XATULA: Another son of mine was shot in June. He also died. No investigations were made.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know the people who are shooting your children?
MRS XATULA: I know who shot my son who was in Tsolo. I told the police. The only thing that they did, he ran away.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Is he the other policeman?
MRS XATULA: No.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know that child?
MRS XATULA: Yes, I know him.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Who is he?
MRS XATULA: It was Kati Soliklaka.
MEMBER OF PANEL: As I look here I read and find out your daughter was also injured by the police. Could you give us details about this?
MRS XATULA: Usually when I was at school I would come back and find out that my children have been abducted by the
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
18 N XATULA
police. One day the police were in the Qumbu area. Then they said they were going to arrest the people at Mfuliwani, but surprisingly enough they went to my place and took my children because they said they have toi-toied.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What was happening at the time?
MRS XATULA: No, my children were just staying at home and they sweep them all. When I came from school I was surprised because I saw the police in town and we knew that the minute you saw the police you knew that something was wrong. We knew that they would go up the ceiling and look for everything that you did not know what they were looking for.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What did they do to your daughter?
MRS XATULA: It was a rainy day and the road is very slippery. They said, whilst she was expecting a baby, they said she must roll herself over. She was rolling herself in that distance in that steep area and they said she must roll over, she must make herself to look like a bicycle. When she stands up they would say she must make a frog jump. All this happened whilst she was expecting a baby to the extent that that child, you could see that that child did not survive because there was something wrong during her birth.
MEMBER OF PANEL: I would like to thank you Mama. Is there anything that we have left out?
MRS XATULA: I have another child who died in December 1994.
MEMBER OF PANEL: What happened to that child?
MRS XATULA: I was only two days in King William's Town. I was going back to Maclear to attend a meeting. Before I could go there I was fetched by one of the young girls. When I left on Thursday she died on Friday.
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
19 N XATULA
MEMBER OF PANEL: What do you mean when you said they drowned?
MRS XATULA: The drowned in the swimming pool. They were just floating on their backs and they were in the swimming pool and they had drowned. It was surprising because my child looked as if she had been assaulted first. When I said I would like to attend the post mortem they agreed, but I was never fetched to attend the post mortem. I was informed that they would do the post mortem at eight o' clock. When I got there it was all over.
MEMBER OF PANEL: I would like to hand you over to the Commissioner so that some issues can be clarified.
MEMBER OF PANEL: I have one important issue that I would like to ask. I am sure you have a reason to be here. Could you please tell us why would, what would you like us to do for you?
MRS XATULA: Firstly, I am interested to know whether it would be possible for the Commission to make investigations concerning Leo's death. I am sure Mtamo received orders from somebody. I would like who ordered him to kill Leo. I would also like the reason and they should give us a valid reason. Why were they not prosecuted? I am also interested to know about our Government, this present Government. How could really our Government, whom we respect very much, could really honour the perpetrators. It is very strange that the people who were Constables are now high ranking officials. Why cannot the justice be done? We want those people to come and ask for forgiveness from us. These people were persecutors. They say they have repented. How could that happen? Who encouraged them to repent? We would like the Commission to make investigations about these
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
20 N XATULA
promotions. We cannot understand how could a person kill or murder somebody and then be promoted thereafter.
Thirdly, we would like to find out about the corpses and the bodies that I saw in that mortuary. I am certain there are people at Sicawu who should know. Those children who were with Leo there, I do not believe that they were buried properly. When I took Leo I was the only one who buried him. We did not hear anything thereafter of any other funerals. I am really concerned and I would like to know what happened to those bodies. Do the parents of those children know that their children died also.
MEMBER OF PANEL: Are you finished Mama?
MRS XATULA: The fourth one is I would like this Commission that it should not have 1993 as the deadline because the people are still dying. These skirmishes which are all over are the responsibility of these people. I think the Commission can think of any type of help or assistance that they can give. I am ending my presentation. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Dr Mgojo.
DR MGOJO: Mama, we would like to get some clarification. You mentioned something in your statement. You said two cars were stolen and you also say they are known.
MRS XATULA: Yes, there are two cars which were taken by the police. It was XV, it was van 1609. They said they were stolen. The case was on and it was discovered that they were not stolen. During the court proceedings we saw a car, one of my cars in the garage, Ronnies garage and when we asked about this it was said the car was brought in by the police. When they realised that we have identified the car they removed it from that garage. Then we were acquitted. When we went there to collect our van the van was nowhere to UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
21 N XATULA
be found. Even today we cannot find that van. Our Sprinter also disappeared.
DR MGOJO: What would you like the Commission to do about that?
MRS XATULA: I would really like the Commission to try and investigate about the vehicles which disappeared.
CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Xatula I would like to thank you very much. It is strange to realise that some of the things that you are saying, it seems as if it was, it were things which happened yesterday. When you were contacting us telephonically and you were making enquiries about this gentlemen. It really touches us ...
UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
