DR RANDERA: Can I please call Richard Tembelikle Rumo. Can I once more announce that there are statement takers in the foyer. If there’s anybody who wishes to make a statement, please go through to the foyer. There are statement takers waiting. Richard, good morning. Welcome.
INTERPRETER: The speaker’s mike is not on. Richard’s mike.
DR RANDERA: Richard, thank you for coming to-day. You’re taking us to Ogies. My colleague next to me tells me that I have something about Ogies because whenever we talk about Mpumulanga I talk about Ogies, so I hope you’re going to tell us a little more about this little town of yours which is not far from here. You’re taking us to 1992 and you’re going to be telling us about what happened to you. Mr Hugh Lewin is going to be helping you with your story but before he does that, can you please stand to take the oath. Miss Mkhize will help you with that. Thank you.
MISS MKHIZE: Do you swear that the evidence you are about to render to this Commission is the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
MR RICHARD T RUMO: (sworn states)
DR RANDERA: Mr Rumo, I’d like to welcome you and thank you for coming. Are you comfortable?
MR RUMO: I am conformable.
DR RANDERA: Can you explain who is with you?
MR RUMO: This is my sister, Celina, on my left hand side.
DR RANDERA: We’d like to welcome her as well. Thank you for coming. Please feel relaxed. You’re going to tell us about what happened here within the Ogies branch of the ANC in 1992 and the way in which you were threatened as well as what happened to you. If you could please feel relaxed and in your own time and your own words tell us what happened. Thank you.
MR RUMO: I will explain about what happened in Ogies in 1992. I was the Chairperson of Ogies branch and after that I never had peace from the police or the soldiers who used to visit Ogies. This even extended beyond Ogies, to Witbank because I was working here in Witbank. They would follow me. At times I would attend ANC meetings in Kriel or Matla but they would still follow me in their own way. At times I would be leaving Matla to go back home and I’d come across a road block where I’d be instructed to get out of the car. Normally I would have company in my car and the police would cause chaos inside my car just so I would react in some way. They’d tell me that they are searching. I’d proceed to go home and they’d follow me. At about two a.m. I’d hear strange knocks on my door and when I open the door they’d come inside and search for things that I knew nothing about. They would take anything which had the ANC name on it.
I want to talk about this particular day in Kriel. There was an ANC meeting and I was given the task to go and sort out things in Douglas because there would be a Comrade, Terror Lekota or Chris Hani who’d be addressing the workers in Douglas. I agreed to go and make arrangements regarding the catering etc., so that everything runs smoothly. I left my work place on Friday and I headed for that area. There were two girls with me. They were my sisters children. I took them home before going to Douglas. I left them at home and it so happened that they left their calculators in my car, as well as my music instrument. I thought I’d leave everything at home and drove into darkness. It was in May in winter.
Just as I was entering Douglas, at about five in the afternoon, at the corner by the mine, next to the hostel where I was going to make arrangements for the meeting, there was a car accident. A school child was hit by a car and lying on the ground. No one was attending to this school child so I thought I should make an effort to attend to the child. There were three policemen standing by in a car nearby and I wondered what had happened there. I was torn apart, I didn’t know what to do, whether I should stop or rush to Douglas. I decided to proceed in order to attend to my task. I’d made all the arrangement and preparations for the Sunday meeting. When I was going back I found out that, that accident that took place at about five, it was now around seven or eight, that child was still lying there cold as it was. I took it upon myself to do something about it. I stopped my car, got out and went to the school child. I saw these police, I don’t know what you call these gentlemen, police or security. One of them had a gun and he asked me, with such venom, what I wanted. I told him I was coming to attend to the school child and he told me that it’s none of my business. I told him for his information, that it was part of my business because I was a teacher and this was my responsibility. He told me, we had an argument which ensued and now we had this ...(indistinct) that emanated out that.
We saw a group of people coming as well. The other person went to stop the crowd which was approaching. Right then the trucks approached and I decided it best to leave the scene but on the other hand I felt that I shouldn’t go. I insisted to wait and he called his colleague and they took me inside the car. There were dogs inside the van, at the back of the van. I was lost as to what was happening because I hadn’t done anything. They took me with them. While I was still inside the car I saw the other person coming to fetch the body that was lying on the ground.
We realized that the school child had died already and we saw this White lady driving past. She spoke to me in Afrikaans. As I don’t understand Afrikaans, I struggled to understand. She said, this is week-end and we are picking up Black pigs. I was amazed at what she said because it seemed to be a joke to them because they started laughing. I asked from the car, why are you calling this child a Black pig? He told me that he had gone to my car and discovered my ANC card which he brought back with him. He told me to shut my mouth and I shouldn’t say anything about this Mandela. I realized that this argument was intensifying. They were making jokes of the whole scene, especially regarding the girl that was lying there. The other two security chaps discussed something. Fortunately, only I knew how to start my car so they could not start my car. They tried to start the car but the couldn’t so they came back to me and asked what was wrong with my car. They asked me to go and start the car, which I did. My hands were tied behind me and they took me to the police station at Black Pine.
Unfortunately, when I got there, there was a boy who attended school in Delmas and I knew him. By this time it was eleven at night and he asked me what I was doing there so I told him to ask the other guys who brought me there. That gentleman told me that he wouldn’t allow me to spend the night there and that he would make a point of keeping me company. He tried to get a heater for me from the Charge Office so it could warm the place and I could stay there. He gave me his jersey because it was cold. I slept for a while and I woke up, he asked me what was in my car. I told him what was in my car and he said that there was nothing left in my car and the White policemen were busy in my car, not knowing what they were doing.
I remembered a certain attorney by the name of Omar Zaire in Springs. I had his telephone numbers with me and I decided to phone him and explain the whole matter to him. He made arrangements to call Ogies and also come to me. At about two in the morning he did come. Not the lawyer but he made arrangements that my brother-in-law would come in the early hours of the morning. He came and I told him to take everything in my car. He went to my car and came back to tell me that there was absolutely nothing left in my car. The police refused ... (interrupted)
MR LEWIN: Mr Rumo, sorry to interrupt. We are wanting to get on to the part in your statement where you talked about the divisions and what happened as a result of that. Do you think you could get onto that now please?
MR RUMO: As to that division, when I left the police station, the Comrades who came from Paula, whom I worked with in the ANC branch, there was that division that they alleged that I was working with the police in Black Pine. I asked them what made them say that and they said that they had no trust in me anymore because I was there in custody and I might have had friendships with the police by virtue of being there. A statement given that there were ANC members who were misbehaving and that was broadcast on the national television and then there were those allegations that they did not trust me anymore as their Comrade. They decided that this should be publicized so that it’s known that people from Ogies are not genuine ANC members. They wanted everybody to know what transpired in Ogies.
I thought that was minor but at one stage a Comrades went to Witbank from Ogies and when they got home they told me that they had come to discuss the matters of Ogies with me. People were complaining in Ogies that the ANC Comrades were not receptive to them. I asked them to come inside the house. I knew that people were not in favour of Comrade Jackson because once he made mention of a certain statement on the national television. While we were still inside, four Comrades from the offices came inside. When they came inside they were very rude and asked me why did I allow Jackson to come, especially after he had uttered those words on the national television. I tried to explain to them what prompted him to say the things he said. They then went to my late father and instructed him to chase Jackson from Ogies or else they would set our house alight. My father came and insulted me and threatened ... (interrupted)
MR LEWIN: Sorry, could you explain who this Comrade Jackson is please?
MR RUMO: Comrade Jackson Mtembo is an ANC member and he is now Minister of Transport here in Mpumulanga region.
MR LEWIN: At the time what role did he have, that brought him to you? What was he doing in Ogies?
MR RUMO: At the time he was an ANC National Officer. He came to me in Ogies so that we could discuss and address the ANC Comrades’ problems in Ogies as though there were people who approached him about the Comrades in Ogies.
MR LEWIN: Could you explain then to us, just briefly, to round up, what actually happened about this now? How was it resolved or was it not resolved? This dispute.
MR RUMO: This problem was not resolved, this is why I came to this Commission because I made an effort to solve the problem. Comrade Jackson was attacked, assaulted and injured. I took him to Witbank and my going back to Ogies created a problem to the community of Ogies. Even to-day, I’m not accepted in Ogies community. I’m not accepted and I’m regarded as a traitor.
MR LEWIN: Were you yourself attacked at all?
MR RUMO: They did try to attack me there but fortunately some people alerted me and I managed to escape.
MR LEWIN: What is your position now, to-day? Do you still have an official position?
MR RUMO: I don’t have any official position and that has affected me mentally as well because I’m not as effective as I used to be.
MR LEWIN: This business about them claiming that you’re a police informer, did you categorically deny that?
MR RUMO: I repudiate all of that. The were people were doing that but not myself. I have two names that I would like to disclose. I wonder if you’d allow me to?
MR LEWIN: In what connection, Mr Rumo?
MR RUMO: Those are the people that alleged that I am working with the police and they were the very ones who wanted information about the ANC in Ogies.
MR LEWIN: I think what we would need there is if you could just speak to our statement takers afterwards and give us those names rather than in public because the names are not in your original statement so we haven’t been able to inform those people. We need to do that as a Commission, so if you could please give us those names afterwards.
MR RUMO: Thanks.
MR LEWIN: Thank you, Mr Chair.
DR RANDERA: Thank you, Mr Lewin. Miss Mkhize?
MR MALAN: Mr Rumo, I just want to tell you that I’m rather confused because your statement is already confusing and I understand that the whole country was confused and it seems to me, Ogies even more than some other areas, especially through your eyes at the time and the situation that you found yourself in. Unfortunately, you addressed a number of other issues which you didn’t deal with in the statement and a number of issues you dealt with in the statement, you didn’t deal with now so you will understand if we don’t exactly follow the trend of your thoughts. May I just make sure you are saying that the main purpose why you’re coming to us now is that you are being perceived in your community still as some kind of informer or traitor and you want that record to be set straight? Is that the main purpose of you coming to us?
MR RUMO: That’s correct.
MR MALAN: Then just a few issues in terms of detail in the written statement. You say that you were robbed of your car. How was that done? Was it a criminal robbery or was it an impounding by the police or they accuse you of carrying arms or drugs or what? How did you lose the car?
MR RUMO: As you’ve said, there are things that I did not submit in my statement. The car was taken in the afternoon and I was also assaulted. I have wounds on my body. That was done on the road from Witbank to ...... They took the car and they left me in the road towards Pretoria and suddenly I lost consciousness and when I regained my consciousness, I was in hospital and I didn’t know how I got there. I was told to go to the police station after that. I went to the police station and I encountered problems. When they were assaulting me that night, one of the police said they should have noticed some of the things and ...(interrupted)
MR MALAN: I’m sorry, may I interrupt you. Let’s not go into the other side. Please just tell us about the car. Can I ask you direct questions on that? Were you in possession of a Registration Certificate and ownership papers of the car at the time?
MR RUMO: Yes, I had.
MR MALAN: Can you remember the Registration Number of the car at the time?
MR RUMO: Yes, I do.
MR MALAN: Can you tell us now?
MR RUMO: CBY292.
MR MALAN: Do you still have the Registration Certificate of the car?
MR RUMO: I still have the car but it is not going anymore. It’s no longer registered. It’s at home.
MR MALAN: So, you still have the car?
MR RUMO: Yes.
MR MALAN: So you haven’t lost the car.
MR RUMO: No, I haven’t lost the car.
MR MALAN: All right, then it’s a little clearer to me. That’s not an issue anymore? You have the car.
MR RUMO: I have the car back but the car is not operating.
MR MALAN: We hear you. Did it not operate at all after you received it back? Did it drive for a while? When did it stop working?
MR RUMO: After I got it from the police station, it was no longer working.
MR MALAN: How did you get it to your home?
MR RUMO: They took some of the parts, vehicle parts and I had to get a starter for me to be able to drive it home.
MR MALAN: May I refer to another part of your written statement? You come out with a plea and you say, my please is to apologize to those whom I did wrong. What do you intend to say here? Who do you want to apologize to? Do you want to do it publicly? Do you want to use this opportunity or what are you saying with this statement?
MR RUMO: It’s because the majority of people in Ogies found themselves facing some kind of problem because of my being inactive in the group. There was chaos after that. I’m apologizing because people lost respect for me completely and the suddenly took me negatively, as someone who was collaborating with the police. It there is anyone that I wronged as the Chairperson, I would like to apologize now.
MR MALAN: Do you have any specific wrongs in mind when you say that? You say, if there is anyone, so it’s an open plea, it’s an open apology, not knowing what you’re apologizing for, is that what you’re saying to us? It’s very difficult, I’m trying to help you and lead you because I can see your pain of having been rejected from the community but I don’t see how we’re going to set the record straight. I’ll leave it for the moment. I’m just telling you it’s very difficult to follow. Just a last question. You did say you’re not politically active. Did I hear you correctly, you said that your occupation was that of a teacher?
MR RUMO: Yes, I’m a teacher.
MR MALAN: You still teach.
MR RUMO: Yes.
MR MALAN: Where and at what school and what subject?
MR RUMO: Umpukweni Secondary School and I teach commercial subjects such as Business Economics and Accounting.
MR MALAN: Since when have you been teaching?
MR RUMO: 1986.
MR MALAN: At the time of the events, you were already in teaching?
MR RUMO: Yes.
MR MALAN: At the same post?
MR RUMO: Yes.
MR MALAN: Thank you very much Chairperson.
DR RANDERA: Miss Mkhize?
MISS MKHIZE: Again I’m sure I will just ask questions - in a clear picture. How old were you at the time when you started being politically active? I will try within a twinkling of an eye to get the incidents you encountered with the police and how you were tortured by the police as my colleague said. According to our statement, there were things that were not mentioned, that you’ve just mentioned now.
MR RUMO: I started being politically active at Tembega High School in Nelspruit.
MISS MKHIZE: Were you affiliated with a certain group politically?
MR RUMO: I always kept company with the students.
MISS MKHIZE: The position that you’re talking about, the Chairperson. Was it the first position that you had politically?
MR RUMO: Yes.
MISS MKHIZE: When you were a student did you ever once have an ......... or argument with the police?
MR RUMO: Yes, I would say so because I was expelled from Tembega High School in 1980 and I was in Standard Nine then. I was expelled around September.
MISS MKHIZE: Why did the police intervene?
MR RUMO: The police would come and interrogate me. There were students that went to attack one of the lady teachers’ house, who was working with the School Body Master and my name was implicated, even though I didn’t take part. Because I come from the Reef, that qualified me that I should have participated in some way and I was expelled due to that.
MISS MKHIZE: At the time, were you military trained?
MR RUMO: No.
MISS MKHIZE: When you say you were an ANC Chairman, you’ve explained to us, even though we don’t have this in the statement, that you came across this girl lying on the ground. Exactly how does that correspond with your atrocities?
MR RUMO: To see a young girl lying in the road at night made me feel so bad that I had to enquire about that child because it could have been one of the students from my school even though she was in the dark, I tried to see. I wanted to see exactly who the child was and what had happened.
MR RUMO: When you came across the police were you once detained for even a longer period?
MR RUMO: Yes, I was detained in Black Park as I mentioned before.
MISS MKHIZE: Were you tortured or harassed in any way?
MR RUMO: Yes, they came to me every night to interrogate me and harass me and after I had met my lawyer, that subsided. On Friday, Saturday, Sunday and on Monday I was released. These other three days I went through hell. They kept me in a cell with a twelve year old boy and when I asked this boy how he got there, he told me that he was selling in the location with a certain Indian guy and he was arrested but the Indian guy was set free.
MISS MKHIZE: Besides that were you subjected to some sort of torture?
MR RUMO: No.
DR RANDERA: Thank you people, can we just ...
MISS MKHIZE: When you look back in retrospect, you were suspected of collaborating with the police. What could have made that possible?
MR RUMO: I don’t understand you question but... I don’t understand your question. When they kept me in the cell, they fabricated a story that I was generating a relationship with them and they made that to appear to be so. Two of the people. I told the Comrades who came to visit me what the police said but they would go back to the location and give their own fabricated version of the whole thing.
MISS MKHIZE: Maybe, as you have already said, there is a lot of other things that we don’t have in your statement, like what you have said, that the police portrayed some kind of picture as well. That they were collaborating with you. We don’t know whether they gave you some money. You may want to submit another statement because this one is missing a lot of information which you have already told to us to-day.
DR RANDERA: Richard, thank you very much for coming. You raise a lot of questions, more questions from what you’ve said to-day and in your statement. I think the one important issue, a very important issue regardless of the difficulties of your statement, which is how two communities come to reconcile with each other relating to issues which have taken place in that community. I think that is what you are struggling with to-day and probably have been struggling with for the last few years. I hope that by coming here to-day and having spoken publicly about your difficulties and if there are people from your community to-day who are listening, they will take that back to your community and something can be done to bring about reconciliation for you and the community. Thank you for coming.
MR RUMO: Thank you.
