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people's warExplanation My life since then has been very, very difficult. It’s had a big element of self destruction. I’ve been through two marriages. I have a daughter. But really I’ve just destroyed the people around me, my friends, my family and I think it’s enough now. Ten years ago the top five hanging nations in the world were China, Nigeria, Iran, the United States and of course South Africa. By the end of 1989 when a moratorium was placed on the death penalty in South Africa over 2500 people had been hanged in this country. The Truth Commission now has to ... Actually, it was a lie that I was tortured by ministers like the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Alfred Nzo and it was also lies that I was tortured by the late Chris Hani and also the late Secretary-General of the ANC, Thomas Nkobi. So, those were lies, but also within my statement that I made, my ... ... and consequences on behalf of your men? // Yes. // And is that still your feeling today? // Yes, I take full responsibility from myself downward, for all my men’s actions, but not for those above me – not anymore. // Did you also expect the same from people who gave you orders? // ... ... correct. I accept responsibility because I was the political head of the department and I’m not going to run away from my responsibilities. Not towards the people out there who actually put me in that position and who had trust and confidence in me. And I will accept the responsibility also ... There’s no way that you can take away the rainbow aspect of our nation, it’s there, it’s permanent. It’s just that it has to be cemented further by ensuring that there’s parity between people in terms of conditions of their lives, conditions at work, at school, at their residencies. We ... Now tell us what caused the division between you and the Youth League? // I have already indicated that I was patrolling at night because I was working. Sometimes members of the SDU would be patrolling during the day and people would be looting spaza shops, the taxis would be shot at. If you are a ... During the trial, the policeman which was handling the case had difficulty and committed suicide. The following day, I think two days after the trial, Zandi was killed. So you can see that there was something that is ... that the very police cannot handle it. So I did even predict that those ... Queenstown in the Eastern Cape is more or less the same size as Kroonstad, but the stories the Truth Commission heard there were very different. This is Mlungisi cemetery where 11 victims of the 1985 Queenstown massacre lie at rest. The trouble began with a consumer boycott against white businesses ... 2000 Years ago the southern part of the African continent was inhabited by hunter-gatherer peoples, the Khoi and the Bushmen. Slowly moving down from further Northern Africa into these parts were several groups of farmers called the Bantu. To the people of other continents Africa was unknown until ... Ethel Ntuli was supported during the hearing by her son, Mbusi. Even though her other son, Victor escaped death by not being home during the massacre Ntuli believes that it was the IFP who finally killed him. No inquest was ever held into his death. // In November last year 18 people were arrested ... They may well be interested parties who would have been or who even did try to prevail upon De Kock not to talk. I am more than satisfied on reports that I have that there are clearly interested parties who would have preferred that he does not talk. He is now giving evidence under oath. He gives ... ... them were family, we’re one people. So, despite of all those things we managed every now and then going back to them. We pleaded with them and towards the end of eighties then they started to realise that really these people they are not behind us. Because, we pointed out to them that on a ... Committee’s full schedule starts in two weeks’ time, but a serious problem has been that former security force members were reluctant to come forward. That could be changing. In a major breakthrough 22 former security policemen approached the Truth Commission this week to discuss the ... I was actually leaving for Germany on the day when the Commissioners were announced and Sheena Duncan actually phoned me to tell me and shoe! It was incredibly exciting because for me I think that you have law, you have the whole question of jurisprudence, but law doesn’t often bring justice and ... Professor Giliomee … // Well I’ve got trouble with Donald Woods’ assertion that people know when they hear the truth or not. I think as a newspaper editor I think he probably will say no that is not quite true. The point is that, certainly in the case of the Biko case we have had revelations, ... One of its members was Katiza Cebekhulu; he vanished seven years ago. Today he has a damning story to tell about Winnie Mandela. // There’s a sense in which what Katiza has to say confronts the soul of this nation, and usually people who do that end up on a cross. De Kock gave instructions that we should go and help Port Elizabeth Police, because there were some chaps that were making Port Elizabeth ungovernable and those people had to be eliminated. ... that the house had been burnt down at KwaMashu. Our mother had been burnt down completely, she was in ash. // … and one of the amabutho’s, the warriors, said to us ‘ let me see who’s got an axe’ and I heard they were chopping down our doors and they got inside. I don’t know when ... Were the infiltrators armed? // Definitely. Both groups, as you know it was two incidents, two separate incidents. Both groups were armed. // No there were no firearms on them. There was absolutely no firearms found on these people and nothing were handed to me. |
