self-defence units (SDUs)

MR BERGER: Subsequent to the explosion, did you report your participation, your units participation in that bombing to the leadership of the ANC?

CHAIRPERSON: And what department - was he from the Riot Squad units, was he from ...(intervention)

... when we did manage to raise funds this money would be used by the unit, for instance to transport weapons because we used to link with other units, some in Natal, so we had to have money for transport to go ...

... James Bolo and Sipho Samuel Gavin, appearing in a set of photographs. I've never seen the aforementioned persons and they have never been in my units and even among the cadres I have trained. The only person I recognise in those set of photographs was Sipho Xuma, who was both the Director of ...

... a lot of issues. Perhaps it was also in our discussion, but I cannot say for sure, because we were not talking about the specific targets that the units were supposed to attack. It could have been possible that he did talk to me about his target that he was about to attack, but I never ...

... there were two limpet mines that exploded at OK Bazaar. In fact Bafunuku was only having one limpet mine. That means there was a coincidence of units, that they entered the same shop at the same ...

MR MSIBI: I'm not aware of that. Maybe to clarify some matters because it might leave another impression on this Committee is that my units, under no circumstances were they involved in any criminal activity because I would regard that as a criminal activity. Thank you.

MR MALAN: But that was regular practice of Units A and B, according to what you know?

MR ZAKWE: The firearms that were there after being collected from the other Units, we took them because they were not doing what they were supposed to do, we took them to the ANC Youth League and the others were given to the MK members in the area, and after some time, some of them were confiscated ...

MR DUKADA: You know the police in parts of South Africa at that time had their own unit or units dealing with terrorism, is that correct?

MR LYSTER: All right, Mr Shabangu, you said that you - you just gave us a brief account of the different units in which you served - the Murder & Robbery. --- That's correct.

The Applicants testified that they were both commanders of two separate units. The attack on the abovementioned houses were planned by the First Applicant on the instructions of Apla but he had the authority to identify the specific targets.

with by the members of the Union Units. What I knew about Joe Tsele is, as I told you, the information

CHAIRPERSON: And now you speak of units, because now - let's take this one for instance, which is subject of this hearing, the unit where Messrs Jantjie, Jagga and Mr Robertshaw and yourself, you say you joined that seven months prior to the incident which we are discussing here. Do you recall ...

CHAIRPERSON: But seeing that it started in - if we accept the evidence that the kick-off of these operations was that meeting with Brig Viktor, that is according to the applicant Viktor it was after February, or during February '86, when he was deployed to the units in Mamelodi.

Most of the remaining witnesses were members of the various riot units of both the South African Police and the South African Railway Police. These were the police that were charged with protecting KTC in terms of the interdict and also preventing at attack on the ground.

MR JANSEN: And the victims of this first incident were only known to yourself, or their personal identities were not known to you, they were known to you as persons who were part of the ANC and of certain operational units of the ANC?

... is independent of the police and if I may put it plainly, enjoys a reputation for greater probity and impartiality than the ordinary investigation units of the ...

Can you tell the Committee what indications there were that torture would be condoned or they would be protected - your members, your - members of your various units and people under you or above you?

MR ROSSLEE: I said from my previous experience with the units, working in different areas, I know that there were reports given back to Major De Kock on our activities, Mr Chairman.