MS BURTON
Press the button so that you can speak into the microphone. I see that you have somebody to support you is she a relative or a friend?
MR STUURMAN
A relative.
MS BURTON
A relative, you very welcome. You want to use a headset or can you - you are all right. Mr Stuurman will you please stand to take the oath.
SIPIWO IVIN STUURMAN Duly sworn states
MS BURTON
Thank you, Chairperson we have heard this afternoon from Sidney Yabo, from Jan Molowitz and from Thabo Metsing, and we were expecting to hear from the brother in law of Jerry Ndishi. And we are now going to hear from Sipiwo Stuurman.
They were all victimised in similar ways, in a similar period and we earlier today thought - in memory of Jerry Ndishi who at the age of 13 was shot dead on the 1st of January 1988. I am going to ask advocate Potgieter to help Mr Stuurman in telling us his story.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Mary - good afternoon Mr Stuurman. Are you comfortable?
MR STUURMAN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Good, you have waited a while to get your change to give your testimony. I thank you for your patience. As Mary had indicated, yet again your story takes us to that era when the kitskonstabels were operating in the township in Beaufort West . The incidents had happened as Joyce Seroke has indicated this morning between about May/June of 1987 to about the beginning of 1988. And your story again relates to that period and you are also one of those people who fell victim in that - in that era.
But before we get to the shooting incident, involving the kitskonstabels, your story starts a bit earlier than that, it starts at the time when you were still schooling in 1985. So can I ask you to start at that stage when you were still at school in 1985 and then take us through to the actual shooting incident where you were injured.
So would you start by - by telling us about the situation when you were still at school.
MR STUURMAN
Okay, in 1985 I was a student at KwaMandlekosi as we all know that, that was a year of disruption and we also had a problem in our school. Then it happened that there were some harassment’s of some kind which were done by [indistinct] as we have heard from other witnesses.
That time I was the Chairperson of COSAS, and my name was in the fore to an extend that in 1985 I had to disappear, trying to run away with my life, because people were after me and I had to walk by dark. Even the time I had to write examinations, it was difficult, but the principal Mr Hanavo helped me with the lamp to give me light in the staff room where I wrote together with my friend Peter Mbalo.
We then wrote our examination and we succeeded and I went to state whether we got good results or not. Because I would say perhaps it was the fear of the principal because he could see the harassment too.
And then we had to go to other schools, because the school we were in at the time went up as far as std 7. We then went to Bloemfontein where we continued with our studies in std 8 we got a school. I was still with Mbalo, and were admitted in that particular school, I have forgotten the name of the school. [indistinct] and we met friends there in Bloemfontein, these were children from [indistinct] family, who’s father was a minister.
So we use to chat and they would tell us more about Bloemfontein. Then just a week before the re-opening of the schools, I one day decided to do my washing - it was a hot day and I had a T-shirt that loved so much, and I had - I was putting it on. And little was I aware that it was going to bring me some problems.
So I fetched water, on my way I met - I think it was a policeman who questioned me in Sotho/Zoeloe and asking me what this was, then I told him this was a T-shirt. And he asked me who was there, then I said it was Tshaka who had been killed by the police.
So he insulted me, then I thought very fast and I just said something, but I went away, then we did not agree as we were talking because he spoke Sotho and then we had to use hand signs whilst talking to one another. Then when he asked how is it - this shirt is, I said it was nice. So I explained to him that the person on the T-shirt had been killed by the police. So these children from Bloemfontein told me that they were going to fetch me and I became very nervous. I couldn’t even eat the porridge that I was eating.
There was a tough guy by the name of Simon who came and greeted us and lifted his feet calling us comrades, there was no response. Then they asked where was this boy with the T-shirt, then I lifted my hand up , then he came into the room and searched everything. Unfortunately he got some writing on our briefcases and my friend was present at the time and he asked who’s shirt was this - who’s briefcase was this and he asked us to put the T-shirts on.
Then he took us with him, taking us to a police station. Later on Simon became tricky and said to us we were playing with the organisation even he was not serious and therefore he asked us why had we written ANC on our briefcases, but I did not answer. He asked my friend who’s briefcase was this, and he did not answer. Then a certain white man who was with him, asked us where we came from, then he said he was looking for Zenty because that was the name I was known in.
I waited for a while and someone - and he was pretending as if he was erasing what was written on the briefcase. Then my friend said - he said to my friend you can see I have helped you because I have erased all these words you have written on the briefcase. Then he even scolded us for shaking. And then there was no truth that came out. He kept on asking questions about what do we know about ANC and many other questions and he asked why there was this briefcase written ANC and ultimately he took me and someone was tired of the interrogation. So he told us he was going to beat us up, so I went out with this white man, leaving my friend behind, screaming. And I knew they were going to beat me even there.
So he introduced himself as luitenant so and so, then he asked me to sit down and I sat down. He asked me tricky questions saying I had burnt churches - schools the houses. I accepted everything because there was no alternative because I could they were going to beat me. Then he said he loved me, and he said he had got a report from Beaufort West that they were looking for me, then I told him that there I had come to attend school because there were no std 8 where I came from.
So he said if I wanted to go on with my education I had to work together with him. Then he brought a form with R10-00 and asked me to sign and I did though I didn’t like to. Then he said you should not tell my friend about it, so I put it into my pocket. Then he even beat me and I told him that I was determined to get educated. It went on and he said he was going to confiscate my T-shirt because this T-shirt was going to help at school. He said I should wear it underneath my shirt whenever I went to school so that who ever had any interest in that T-shirt I should get hold of him and bring him to them.
And then he said we would meet every Wednesday, I should hide in that house. So I agreed to everything he was saying to me and they did the same to my friend Deniso.
They said they should meet at the graveyard on Wednesday and he must hide. They took measurements, photos of me by a white, short man. He gave me R10-00 so that I should go to the cinemas and I should get to know many people. My fear was that I would - we - we came to Bloemfontein when there were roomers that students could again as a result of the bad results they could cause some problems and then he said to me if I’d not tell him timorously about everything that was happening here at school I should know it the end of me.
So I felt it was useless for me to continue staying there, I should just escape somehow. Then I went to Minister Rev Ndendaswe and I explained to him that - and asked him to take me out and hide me somewhere. Then he refused because he said what would my parents say. Then he said to me he did not sufficiently - not have sufficient petrol. Then the Reverent was forced to take me somehow. We had come back to the house, we had paid even school fees.
There was a policeman living opposite the house where I was, my friend was busy packing the clothes and so that’s how we left to another location that I don’t know. We got some help there from a certain sister by the surname of Niar who came from Beaufort West. And who had some relationship with Simon, we explained everything to her and then she said that person was filthy and it said if I had - could go to the funeral this person would shoot me.
So she asked us to stay and he said he would introduce us to some lawyers. They tried to get tickets and then we got lost, when I got home I could see that they were still after me. My parent are very unhappy until they were compelled to take me away to the Ciskei and this was in March and I again attended school there. That was in 1981 and I passed.
On coming back I went to Cape Town for - to do my Std 10 - 9 that was in 1987. In 1988 on my way - when I came back when this happened - yes it was in first - on the first of January 12 midnight then the people of the church had gathered and I was amongst them. People were singing hymns, we had gathered in a church building and I was going to my aunt’s place to wish her New Year - a happy New Year as we normally do.
Just after I had crossed the street - just when I was about to get into her yard there was a very close range shot. I heard a gun sound - a sound and I was hit here on the hip, I turned and ran away. This person persuade me and kept on shooting - shot twice. I then collapsed next to another Reverend Kellem who died [later 4/8/92], then they took me to hospital. I was still conscious then, then Dr Storm operated on me and the police came and I recognised Warrant Du Toit who called the doctor aside and they talked and the doctor came back and said to me asking that I should be tied with straps.
And he was even trying to operate on a [indistinct] bone and I would protesting. So they said I was becoming mad so they should tie me and I was protesting. Fortunately my father came and stopped them and said they should leave me the way I was. Then they should send me to Cape Town - he was going to pay the costs. So they let - and this gave me another impression because every time he would be working they would be talking aside now and again together with the police.
And I felt bad about their talks, we went to Cape Town. That is where - that time I got there I could not even move my legs. My left leg was amputated - they said they wanted to amputate my left leg and I refused. Then a relative was asked to convince me but she couldn’t. She just looked at me and wouldn’t say anything. And then they called my mother from Beaufort West, they pleaded with her that she should talk to me, that my other leg should be amputated. And it became very difficult for her to agree, in fact she disagreed.
Then I recovered as time went on but they kept on asking me some questions like their were - they were saying to me there was no foolish Constable who could shoot at me for no reason. There was a physiotherapist who he did not care whether he could not walk. There was some people from Black Sash. One of them was Dina or Dian, they used to come and visit me and some other comrades like James to give me courage and he would complain to them, I just didn’t know what to say.
I’d look like a terrorist to them, they would even bring some forms whilst I was in hospital, they would ask me about certain things I liked and these were not correct forms. I did - I just made ticks on this forms and they would say this is not a place for politics and whilst I was still not well one lady called me and asked me whether I had some lawyers. I said I had by the name - a lawyer by the name of Moosa but he said there was nothing they could do to me. They were going to discharge me and I was not well yet. They said I would even come whilst I was at home, so I went to Jooste Hospital and got treatment but I could see I was just tool that would be called even on Sundays just to come and have a look at me. They would lay me on the table, all this was not good to me - it used to hurt me.
I was - I just decided to stop the - taking the treatment and I went home and I was at home for - in 1988 for the whole year of 1988, then in 1989 I decided to go back to school. And even there my - I tried to study my Std 10 and I was not happy.
I was limping, walking with pain - they used to come and fetch me almost every day after school. My sisters Nxuculana even my books they would take all this and they could keep me for about 3 hours. Even when my mother would come and inquire about me they wouldn’t tell her where I was. One day the principal came with my mother to the police and the principal’s name was Jase.
They released me very late, they were trying to - Coenie Van Wyk was trying to convince me who nearly made my - my family to get a [indistinct] . Coenie Van Wyk’s father used to work with my father so he went to my father to say that I had bad friends. And then my father allowed him to talk to me and he came to fetch me. I went to his office and he said he was one short here on - on the back because he was against the Government, but now he can see that we have a good Government.
So he was asking me to change - so I explained to him that I never burnt any school, I never burnt any church nor any house. Then he said to me he knew that I couldn’t walk well. He offered to buy me a BMX bicycle, I said I didn’t need a bicycle because I was afraid of the community to see me now working with the people who had shot me. How would they look at me, he also once gave me R37-00 and I had had enough with the R10-00 that he had once given to me whilst in Bloemfontein.
And he insisted that I should take it as a gift but I did not except it. Then he said they could sent me to University, we even mentioned some friend that they sent to school. They would say I would be like him and I was shocked when I heard this.
He even said that if he were in my shoes he would take this opportunity but I should not tell my mother. Then I asked him why, then he said you know how women are. Then I said he should give me a chance to thing about this. He used to use words like geheim - secret. We quarrelled with my father because I asked him why he had done this, why should he say to Van Wyk he could use me. My father was shocked and he said he didn’t know anything about this.
So you could see we were not in good relation with my father, he came because I also wanted to find out certain things from him. I said yes money can help but how can you come to home, he would say this would be very easy. Because they had - he was a boer, a white man, he said to me there are certain things that they smear on their faces and he would leave the police van next to the school and he would walk into the location and to our house and no one would be able to identify what kind of a person he was and also his nationality.
I got afraid because I couldn’t understand how you could get into the location and my house, then I said to him he should give me a chance. Then I phoned my lawyers Mr Banto, they came - I still - I had those statements that they had. People like Coenie Van Wyk, so they stopped then but he kept on coming and he fetched me one day from school using a silly term saying I a twee gat jakkals as if we had made a agreement but yet that was not the situation.
ADV POTGIETER
Did they then in fact stop or Van Wyk did he then stop harassing you after you saw the lawyers, so you called in the lawyers? How did you get rid of this Van Wyk eventually?
MR STUURMAN
Can you repeat your question, sir?
ADV POTGIETER
How did eventually get rid of this harassment , how did you put an end to it?
MR STUURMAN
Finally a certain chap who’s name I have forgotten, intervened and wrote a letter to Oudtshoorn to their offices so they stopped harassing me. I think he was also demoted.
ADV POTGIETER
Now it’s quite an incredible - a [indistinct] experience that you’ve - you’ve told us about started in Std 7 until you were eventually shot on New Years day - New Years morning. Do you know who is responsible for the shooting?
MR STUURMAN
I got to know after I had been discharged that it was Dotho Shawi, Toto Saisy.
ADV POTGIETER
And have you made any case against him?
MR STUURMAN
Yes, but I didn’t lay charge to Toto but the lawyers sued the Minister of Law and Order.
ADV POTGIETER
And was that successful?
MR STUURMAN
I would say it succeeded, but in a very difficult way because I had to pressurise then, I had to phone then. I can’t even say that this the lawyer that actually represented me because I would be told that this minute my lawyer is Christine Burger, the next minute is Patricia-Lee - Patricia Meyer is not there. They are going to get me another lawyer, so I never even when to court.
Then I heard later on that my other - my lawyer was Mashemu Wetly and she - I was offered a certain amount of money and I should - that they asked me to accept it. And then I did accept it because I was behind at school, I had arrears I had to pay for catering, for tuition and she also deducted money 2 - 2,5.
Ntshukulwana too they had all had claims for deforming their names I don’t know how because James had written a letter without my concerns and this letter was sent to me that certain people were claiming 3,000. So the money I received had been deducted - was just a remainder of all these deductions.
ADV POTGIETER
Okay, now the injuries that you sustained in the shooting incident, which were those injuries to what part of the body was that?
MR STUURMAN
Both legs.
ADV POTGIETER
Where you shot in both legs?
MR STUURMAN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
What has been the consequence of that, are you - can you walk normally, can you play sport - what - what was the consequence of the injury to both legs?
MR STUURMAN
I cannot walk normally, I can no longer run, even the soccer I used to play I can no longer play it.
ADV POTGIETER
How far did you eventually get at school?
MR STUURMAN
I’m a University of Western Cape drop out.
ADV POTGIETER
And when did you leave the University?
MR STUURMAN
I left the University in 1992 - no I didn’t go back in 1993.
ADV POTGIETER
And what were you studying at that stage?
MR STUURMAN
I was doing BA in Education.
ADV POTGIETER
And why did you leave University?
MR STUURMAN
I had financial problems and academic problems as well.
ADV POTGIETER
The academic problems is a result of that - of what was that?
MR STUURMAN
Yes, yes even the money I got it late because it’s very difficult to study - to study freely when we do have books, you’ll be knowing that you are not going to get anywhere.
ADV POTGIETER
So it eventually came back to the financial problem that - that is really the - was that the main reason why you had to leave?
MR STUURMAN
Yes, it’s like that.
ADV POTGIETER
You - you were otherwise progressing normally through the - the course that you were doing?
MR STUURMAN
I was not doing well in all the courses but I passed.
ADV POTGIETER
Do you - do you intend going back to complete your studies?
MR STUURMAN
Yes, I will be very please of going back because there is nothing I can do except that I go back to school.
ADV POTGIETER
At the moment what do you actually do?
MR STUURMAN
Yes, I have a part time job and I go there once or twice a week to work.
ADV POTGIETER
Is there any other way that you feel that the injury that you have sustained had effected you?
MR STUURMAN
A lot of damage was cause because I used to - I used to have a lot of friends. I used to run all over but now I’m lacking behind. It’s very tough, I can’t walk freely with them. I am now isolate.
ADV POTGIETER
Is there anything else to which you want to draw our attention, any thing else that you want to tell us or ask us?
MR STUURMAN
My request would be if there is any means I would be very grateful I could go back to school and it this case - and if the amount I owe at school could be settled because my - both my parents are pensioners and they are unable to pay what I owe the University. And even - it’s very difficult to get the disability grant because the doctor who examined me said I could work, then it’s only the second doctor who sanctioned that I could get it.
ADV POTGIETER
Okay, thank you very much for that full account, Mr Stuurman. I thank you for giving evidence.
CHAIRPERSON
Thank you, any?
UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER
You now say there was some money that you got, how much was it?
MR STUURMAN
I got in fact this money originally was R60,000-00, I’ve got written statement to that effect. Then it went down to R21,000-00 so I got R21,000-00 that was after all the deductions that I cannot tell what they were for. Some moneys for the lawyers, Du Toit deducted 3 comma something Rands.
CHAIRPERSON
Sipiwo we thank you as I said to most of you and I say we are also interested in your as the youth even the contribution that has helped and made us to be where we are. We therefore thank you heartedly and we’re going to investigate exactly how much you got and why this money had to be reduced to that amount you received. And we will also see to it whether you could get some help so that you could go back to school, so I thank you.
We - we have just one more witness to take but we are going to take a short break because our - the interpreters and I think everybody would like to stretch a bit. So if we can break now and come back at four.
Order please, order.
