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Content
A listing of transcripts of the dialogue and narrative of this section.
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Structure
The list provides the transcript, info about the text, and links to references contained in the text.
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Special Report
Transcripts for Section 3 of Episode 79
| Time | Summary | | | 27:46 | Crucial questions the Commission had lined up for the policemen included how many of the Mandela United Football Club members were police informers and what relationship Winnie had with the cops; the mystery of why Winnie was never prosecuted or questioned for crimes the police claim they had evidence of. | Full Transcript | | 28:05 | There were activities taking place in the home of Mrs. Mandela which could either lead to an investigation of Mrs. Mandela, her own involvement possibly in these activities, but nothing happened at the level of the police. And I’m putting it to Mr. Kritzinger that they wanted the situation to carry on where the Mandela Football Club or members of it continued participating in criminal activity. // I would like to deny this categorically. I think that the security branch and especially the investigating unit of which I am proud to have been a member did everything in its ability to protect the community of Soweto and the investigations we launched regarding Mrs. Mandela. I think that this is a story that has repeatedly been mentioned. I want to mention again that she was not a person simply to be approached. One must take into consideration that at that stage she was the wife of President Mandela, it was just a matter of … you could just not approach her. | Full Transcript and References | | 29:23 | The other view of course is that and I’d like to understand …. I don’t say you said this … the other theory that is associated with absence of action by the security police is that Mrs. Madikizela-Mandela herself was working with the security police. What are your views in that regard? // If you want my personal opinion then I would say that I deny this categorically. I cannot believe it to be true. | Full Transcript | | 29:59 | Between all the denials and evasive tactics some new facts and corroborations of earlier evidence did emerge. Winnie Mandela has always claimed that she was out of town when child activist Stompie Seipei was brutally beaten at her Diepkloof home. This week, former security policeman Daniel Bosman said the bug on her telephone revealed that Winnie Mandela had in fact been at home that fateful weekend, once again casting doubt on her Brandfort alibi. | Full Transcript | | 30:30 | Do you recall, because it was of great national importance - at the time it was all over the newspapers and so forth – whether information was passed over to the security branch relating to telephone conversations by Mrs. Mandela at her house at the end of December 1988 and the beginning of January 1989. // On those specific days she alleged that she was at Brandfort but we did pick up her voice and this was all passed onto the murder and robbery unit, Soweto. // You have told us that you recorded telephone conversations which indicated or clearly showed that Mrs. Mandela was present during the time period that she says she was in Brandfort around the Stompie case. Were you surprised that this information was never used in terms of the prosecution against Mrs. Mandela? // I can just say that at one stage they said that the information was too sensitive to use, they did not want to make the information public. // And where do you personally rest the responsibility for nothing ...more | Full Transcript and References | | 31:54 | Can I read from your statement that it is possible for us to go and obtain that transcript that you are talking about? // At this stage I think it’s impossible. I think everything has been destroyed by now. | Full Transcript | | 32:12 | Last year, former Mandela United Football coach and the convicted killer of Stompie Seipei, Jerry Richardson created a sensation when he confessed to being a police spy at the first round of the Truth Commission hearings. This week the security policemen confirmed this, but said Richardson was the only informer they had in the Mandela household. Throughout the two days of the police testimony the families of the disappeared Soweto youngster, Lolo Sono sat in the audience. So too did the mother of Stompie Seipei. This time they were joined by the family of murdered askari, Johannes Themba Mabotha, who it was claimed was Winnie’s lover. The former commander of Vlakplaas, Eugene de Kock, who described Winnie as a thorn in the flesh of the security forces gave a chilling account of how he later murdered her alleged lover. He told the TRC Themba Mabotha had been handed over to Vlakplaas by this man, former police colonel, Jan Potgieter. | Full Transcript and References | | 33:14 | When Mabotha turned around I shot two shots into his heart, after each other. Then his clothing was removed, his hands were untied and he was placed on top of the dynamite, the explosives. I then walked off because exploding bodies was not in my line. // The decision to eliminate Themba Mabotha, who made that decision? // I wouldn’t say Jan Potgieter took the decision, I believe it came from his commanders. And if he did that he would had very good reasons for that, that was one of the dark sides of the guerrilla war and I would like to mention that any war that is being fought in the shadows is very dirty, we must make no mistake about that. | Full Transcript and References | | 34:20 | The Commission has now spent 11 very long days probing all the different angles around the Mandela United Football Club and Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, but so many questions remain in the air. Was Themba Mabotha killed to protect Winnie and her relationship with the police? Why are the policemen still so evasive about a woman they clearly saw as a terrorist? Why was Attorney-General Klaus von Lieres not called to explain why Winnie Madikizela-Mandela was given special treatment? But most critically, why did the police never follow up on the cases of the two killed youths Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Tshabalala? Why do the families of these two boys still have nothing to go on except their own suspicions? | Full Transcript | | 35:06 | ‘After the Break: // *Alex Boraine – the man // *Reclaiming Roots // *Register of Reconciliation.’ | Full Transcript |
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