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Content
A listing of transcripts of the dialogue and narrative of this section.
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Structure
The list provides the transcript, info about the text, and links to references contained in the text.
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Special Report
Transcripts for Section 3 of Episode 82
| Time | Summary | | | 30:04 | ‘Maseru Lesotho December 1985’ // Nine people died in this attack. Among the dead was Jackie Quinn whose family testified at the TRC in 1996. // I feel that as long as the people up top who gave the order are exposed, that it’s going to help a lot. If we can find out, it must be somebody in government, they must have known what was happening at the time. I think that’s the main objective. | Full Transcript and References | | 30:30 | The second Maseru is a different operation. It was a Vlakplaas operation; it was led by Eugene de Kock. The operatives were all Vlakplaas operatives, a number of whom have applied for amnesty. The second raid occurred at a time in December of 1985 when the South African government was extremely irritated about not only the position the Lesotho government was taking with regard to support for ANC, but an increased pattern of infiltration. There’s a State Security Council minute on the 20th of December 1985 which identifies a number of steps to be taken against Lesotho. They talk about slowing down the border, the flow of goods and they actually use the term ‘geweld,’ force. Force ‘oor die grens,’ ‘geweld oor die grens,’ [force across the border]. | Full Transcript | | 31:27 | ‘Manzini Swaziland May 1988’ // Felicia Azande Dlodlo’s husband, Theophilus Dlodlo was a commander in Transvaal’s unit based in Manzini. He was killed in a shootout on May 22nd 1987. // The nearest hospital to where my husband died would have been the Mbabane Government Hospital. We went there and we were told at that the time we were too late but yes, there are three bodies that were brought in the night before and we could come on the Sunday morning. We went there very early on Sunday morning and the lady said, can you describe your husband because she didn’t want to open these various trays and shock me. And I described him and told her what he looked like and everything, so she says OK. And then she pulled out the tray. At the time it was marked ‘unknown’ and when she pulled him out I saw him he had blood all over him and he had a white shirt, but it had bullet holes all over in fact it was just red. | Full Transcript and References | | 32:36 | Swaziland was perhaps the country that suffered most in the 1980s when Vlakplaas and other security police units raided it year after year. | Full Transcript | | 32:45 | The bigger picture reveals that there was a very powerful infrastructure of support within those countries and particularly in Swaziland. We have been given information about a number of informers that operate from inside Swaziland, both particularly in the South African expatriate community – you know we have information about hoteliers who gave free accommodation to Vlakplaas, we have information on restauranteurs who would give free meals to Vlakplaas operatives. It’s not an entirely one sided story, it’s a story also of from within those countries considerable collaboration. | Full Transcript | | 33:27 | Many of the attacks launched beyond our borders targeted individuals and apartheid’s assassins even travelled as far as Europe to take out opponents. The April 1980 attempt on the life of Michael Lapsley was the last time the embattled nationalist government used the strategy of cross-border raids. The forthcoming amnesty hearings, especially those of Vlakplaas policemen, may give us a clearer picture of who did what, where despite the fact that the Truth Commission can’t indemnify people for crimes committed in other countries. | Full Transcript | | 34:08 | We’ve had a great reluctance on the part of individuals to talk about what happened in the region because of this difficulty with the amnesty provision, that it may not necessarily apply, an amnesty granted here doesn’t apply say in Botswana. And that of course has been a major disincentive for people to talk. | Full Transcript | | 34:27 | If we should for example unearth, make a statement in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission; that gets known right through the world, then some of the neighbouring countries can say but this is a contravention of our own laws and we now ask for extradition. | Full Transcript | | 34:43 | Former CCB chief Joe Verster is amongst many who have declined to disclose their cross-border operations for fear of extradition. But the TRC has not faced the same reluctance from former policemen. // I don’t think it would be proper for me to divulge all the information about these incidents at this point in time. I am however prepared to say or to mention that he has applied for amnesty in respect of cross-border raids that were done in Botswana, in Zimbabwe, in Swaziland, in Mozambique, one in Lesotho which was very important, obviously then the one in London and then I’m not sure as to whether you could really depict the two other ones as international incidents but he was also involved in attempted coup de tats in the former Ciskei and Transkei and he has also applied for amnesty in respect for those ones. | Full Transcript |
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