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Human Rights Violation Hearings
Type 1 M JOKAZI, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Starting Date 29 April 1996
Location METHODIST CHURCH, JOHANNESBURG
Names MADRINA JOKAZI
Case Number GO/O164 JOHANNESBURG
DR BORAINE: We invite the following witness to the stand, Mrs Madrina Jokazi. You have had a very long wait so let's start straightaway. As you know I have to ask you to take the oath so will you please stand.
DR BORAINE: Thank you. Mrs Jokazi you have listened today to people telling stories as far back as 1960. Your story is only a few years ago and a very tragic story it is too. And we want you to tell that story now and the remarkable escape of the little child. To assist you to tell your story Commissioner Richard Lyster will guide you. Thank you.
MR LYSTER: We all know that the loss of a child is one of the most tragic things a parent can suffer and we on the Commission offer our deep sympathies to you. I understand that you fortunately were not a witness to the death of your daughter and her husband and the story that you will tell us today is a story that was related to you by other people.
MS JOKAZI: The first thing I would like to do here is to greet all the people and I would also like to thank you for this opportunity to be here. It's been quite a long time that I have been having this desire to come here. I will tell the first story. I do not have a witness. The witness who saw this was only a five-year old child which I pushed
MS JOKAZI: Yes, my child went to the police station on Monday the 2nd and we only heard this on the 1st, it was a Sunday evening. On the Monday morning first thing they went to Thembisa police station, they saw my other child was there and some men.
My child Sbongiseni went to look for their sister because they couldn't find out - they were also looking for their nephew in Thembisa. They were told that their sister was killed near the BP garage, both of them were killed there.
MS JOKAZI: I didn't go there. When they went to fetch them they just saw the driver. The driver said he survived because he just took the cash, the money he had, and the other people shot them and burnt them alive, 12 of them.
MS JOKAZI: I don't know who did that, I really do not know who these people were who did such a cruel thing. I was just told that the police and the Zulu people were involved. I never got to know those people.
MS JOKAZI: I would like the Commission to assist me because these children are still at school. There is nobody to help them. These children have got no parents and when they need these things at school they don't choose whether these children have got parents or not, they all need the same things from them.
about it. So I went to Thembisa and reported this matter and they gave me a letter and when they gave me this letter I brought it back to the lawyers. They said they could never accept this case because there were conflicts and violence and I said who was fighting who and nobody could give me this explanation.
MS JOKAZI: The person who discussed this he just said he heard the taxi man talking about this that they killed a lot of people. They were just discussing that among themselves, but nobody ever gave me an account of what actually happened.
MR LYSTER: Mrs Jokazi thank you for the evidence you have given today. I am sorry that it has been so painful to you. I am going to ask any of my fellow Commissioners whether they want to ask you any questions.
MS JOKAZI: Yes the man who was driving this taxi they found him at the Thembisa Police Station on Monday when we went to fetch the child when they asked him how - the police said they just hit him with a gun butt and he managed to run away, but they didn't do anything to him, they just took the money.
MS JOKAZI: No, nobody told me who they were. It's only the child on the 12th of August, when we were burying the child we came across the hippo, this child started running away when he saw the hippos, he said my uncle these are the police who shot and killed my mother, those were the police.
MS JOKAZI: Yes but he only related this on the day that we were burying the mother, when we came across this hippo. This hippo came across and the child started crying and holding onto the uncle and said please uncle help me escape, these are the people who killed and started shooting the combi and killed my mother.
DR RANDERA: Mrs Jokazi can we also just get a little bit more clarification about the other taxi driver who spoke to your son, Sbongiseni, called Pat, do you know what the other name of this ...(intervention)
CHAIRPERSON: Mamma we would really like to thank you. We do not know what remedy we can give to you to really heal your wound and your spirit, but you must know that all these people who are in front of you they are people who empathise with you. We would ask God to embrace you during this time of pain that you are still feeling even at the moment.