DIRK DE BRUIN Duly sworn states
MR DE BRUIN
Yes he was shot and killed.
ADV POTGIETER
Yes, now perhaps you can start by telling us a little bit about yourself - where do you live?
MR DE BRUIN
I come from Robertson.
ADV POTGIETER
So you from Robertson.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Is that where your family lives?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
And is this where this particular incident took place?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
When did it happen?
MR DE BRUIN
It was the 22nd of November 1990.
ADV POTGIETER
What were the circumstances in Robertson on that day that led to this incident?
MR DE BRUIN
Well on that day there was a rent boycott and most of the pupils and their friends from Robertson school were to hold a placard demonstration at the Municipal offices. On their way to the offices, on the corner of Barry Street at the Grand Hotel the police confronted them and asked them where they were going. They said they were going hold a placard demonstration at the Municipal offices. The police then ordered them to turn around and move back. The police then shot teargas into the crowd and the children starting running away in various directions, but most of them just carried on in the direction of the shops. Whilst they were running away this woman came out of her shop and she shot in the direction of the children and [intervention]
ADV POTGIETER
Mr De Bruin we realise this must be a very, very difficult thing for you to do to relive the pain of that day. We really understand you must be experiencing a lot of pain but please take your time, as we understand exactly how you feel. Are you feeling a little better? Right.
MR DE BRUIN
Well this woman shot him on the left side of his chest. He fell in the road and when the ambulance arrived the pamphlets were still strewn around him. Those were the pamphlets he’d been carrying and that was the 22nd. They picked him up and took him to hospital, but he was dead on arrival at the hospital.
On Monday the 26th of November myself, my son of 15 years, my daughter of 14 years and the one of 7 years went to town. While we were on our way to town I went into the shop because I know this woman personally but here mother didn’t want my son of 15 years to come in so I went in with my daughter aged 14 years and the one of 6 years old. I took them by their hands and went through the side entrance right into her lounge. I then told her that I came to her this morning with two conditions, seeing that the newspaper reported that someone carrying a broken bottle ran into the shop and she then wounded this person in the chest.
I asked her whether that was true, I asked her whether that in fact happened that somebody came into her shop with this broken bottle in his hand. To both my questions she answered me and said no Dirk as there was nobody in the shop, should I have let the child come into the shop and maybe kill me or take something that he wanted to take? She said that she saw somebody outside her shop with something that looked like a can of Doom, but she said that I mustn’t saying anything about this can because she was telling me the truth but she was keeping to the statement she gave the police.
ADV POTGIETER
Is that the conversation you had with this person who shot your son.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes that was the woman who shot my son. We sat together, she put her hand on my leg and she said Dirk, this morning I am telling you the truth, but I am sticking to my police statement. It was then that I asked her if the children weren’t into the shop, why did you shoot? She said she was scared that the children would run into her shop.
ADV POTGIETER
Was there a court case after this incident?
MR DE BRUIN
No, to this day there has been no court case, there was just a sort of an investigation when my wife and I went to the Magistrate, Mr Lategan and he asked us why we wanted to make a fuss because our child was already dead and my wife said to him, sir do you think my child is a dog but he did not answer her.
I said to him I believe the case is not finalised yet and he took out a book and said he would sign the book that the case was finalised today and I said it can’t and that he must leave the case. I then contacted my attorneys and the attorney said that it couldn’t be because they didn’t even know that we had to go to that courtroom.
ADV POTGIETER
When a person dies from unnatural circumstances the law says that there must be a judicial inquest should be held. Did you hear anything about an inquest in connection with the death of your son?
MR DE BRUIN
We just received a form which stated that he had been shot in the chest. That was all we received.
ADV POTGIETER
Can you still remember whether was this shortly after the incident or was it a while afterwards?
MR DE BRUIN
It was quite a while afterwards.
ADV POTGIETER
Did you ever make a statement to the police in connection with this incident?
MR DE BRUIN
I personally went to the detective, a Mr Uys who investigated the matter to report the matter as well as what she told me but up to now nothing has been done.
ADV POTGIETER
So there was no court case?
MR DE BRUIN
No, there were no steps were taken against the woman and she still runs that shop to this day.
ADV POTGIETER
How old was your son when he was shot?
MR DE BRUIN
He was 18 years old and in Std 7.
ADV POTGIETER
So he was at school?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Was he involved in any political activities?
MR DE BRUIN
I can’t really say that he was a member of the Youth Organisation at that stage because I worked away from home, so I didn’t really know but when we attended meetings, ANC meetings, they were also present but they never left the area.
ADV POTGIETER
Could you ever succeed in finding an eyewitness or somebody who saw what happened and could tell you?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes definitely. At that stage there was a person who worked for a firm [indistinct] something like that, Ruben Jacobs and he worked across the road from where the incident took place. On that day when the children were moving down the roads, he specifically told his men to stand still and to leave they work because he was scared they would get hurt.
At that stage, how can I put it, nobody was singing or chanting or toi-toiing and the placards were all still rolled up and he stood there watching how the police sent the children back and how this woman in the shop, she still told me that she had a little revolver in her drawer and that day she was wearing a dress with pockets and when the children moved down the road she took the revolver out and put it in one of her pockets.
The witness saw how the woman came out of the shop and how she shot. There isn’t only one witness, there are many even some White people who came there before I did whom I went to see and they told me they would help me with this matter.
ADV POTGIETER
Now according to those witnesses, the person who shot was outside in the street.
MR DE BRUIN
She came out to her doorway. (end of tape)
(beginning of new tape - tape 3, Day 2 - does not blend in with the rest)
MR DE BRUIN
They were beating my son named Cosby. ... not satisfied that he would investigate the matter further but nothing has happened so far.
ADV POTGIETER
How long ago was this, how long have you been waiting for this?
MR DE BRUIN
Well since he was shot until today, 5 years.
ADV POTGIETER
Maybe I can just explain to you or perhaps before we do that, maybe I can ask you, what was the version given by the person who fired the shot - not the version she gave you, but the version she gave the police? This broken bottle business, what was that about?
MR DE BRUIN
Well according to the media, somebody ran into her shop - carrying this broken bottle and according to her she said that she had no option because she was alone in the shop just with her assistant and that’s why she then wounded this attacker in the chest. But the clothing he was wearing shows that there was a hole in the sleeve, so the wound was in his chest.
ADV POTGIETER
Now the person who fired the shot, do you know her?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes I know her.
ADV POTGIETER
Did she know the deceased?
MR DE BRUIN
Well I am not sure in 1982 or ’83 we use to buy clothes from her during that time, but I don’t know whether she still remembered him from those days.
ADV POTGIETER
So you not sure whether she knew him when this incident took place?
MR DE BRUIN
No.
ADV POTGIETER
Was your son the only person shot on that day?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes he was the only child shot there.
ADV POTGIETER
So nobody else was shot?
MR DE BRUIN
No.
ADV POTGIETER
Maybe I can just explain to you, that the person who fired the shot asked for an opportunity to also make a statement to the Commission and we will probably listen to her statement after lunch, is there anything you’d like to add to what you’ve just said? Is that the full story?
MR DE BRUIN
I think yes it is actually all I can tell you.
ADV POTGIETER
Is there anything you would like to ask the Commission?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes, I took out a policy for my son and according or as a result of this situation the police did not want to make any payments on this police because I didn’t end of Tape 2, side B ...
Excuse me.
ADV POTGIETER
The person who shot, the ...
MR DE BRUIN
Yes, Nolene Steyn.
ADV POTGIETER
Is she known to you?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes I know her.
ADV POTGIETER
Did she know the deceased as well?
MR DE BRUIN
I don’t really know because in 1982/83 we used to buy clothes from her but he was still small then so I don’t whether she still knew him.
ADV POTGIETER
So you’re not sure whether she knew him at the time that the incident took place?
MR DE BRUIN
No Sir.
ADV POTGIETER
Was your son the only person shot at the scene?
MR DE BRUIN
The only boy or child?
ADV POTGIETER
Was there nobody else shot at the scene?
MR DE BRUIN
No, nobody else.
ADV POTGIETER
I’d just like to tell you that the person who fired the shot has asked for the opportunity to make a statement to the Commission.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
We will probably hear that submission after our lunch break. Is there anything else you would like to add or is that all?
MR DE BRUIN
That is actually all I have to say.
ADV POTGIETER
Are there any requests to the Commission?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes there is. I took out a policy for him but because of the situation the policy won’t pay out because I couldn’t get the necessary evidence for them.
ADV POTGIETER
What did they indicate, what evidence must you give them?
MR DE BRUIN
They want the police report and the post-mortem results.
ADV POTGIETER
And ...
MR DE BRUIN
When you phone nobody answers. A person doesn’t know where to find them as they were in Athlone and then moved to Paarl but I don’t know their whereabouts now.
ADV POTGIETER
Do you want the Commission to investigate this for you?
MR DE BRUIN
I would appreciate it.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you very much Mr De Bruin, I would just like to ask my colleague whether she has any questions.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Thank you Chairperson, Mr De Bruin and Mrs De Bruin it’s very sad that you could loose your child in the way that you did. May I speak English?
MR DE BRUIN
You may.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
It must be very difficult for both of you to deal with the memory of that particular day. Can you tell us what kind of memories you have of your son?
MR DE BRUIN
He was always smiling. His mother was still working and when he got home he would start making supper, prepare food and he’d always tidy up the house. He helped her a lot and was never a problem for her because at that stage I was working for Telkom in Botrivier and I could only come home every fourteen days so he was a great support to his mother. The people of Robertson talk about this to this day, they say he always had a smile on his face and he never harmed anybody.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
He was a wonderful child as well as a very good child from the perspective of the community. What were your hopes about him?
MR DE BRUIN
According to the talks we used to have he wanted to become an advocate like Mr Potgieter, that is why I took out this policy for him so that he could study and fight for his human rights but today he’s no longer with us to achieve this aim.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
So it’s an entire future taken away from the family.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Did you hear that or are you asking me to repeat?
MR DE BRUIN
Repeat.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I was just saying that it’s so, it is an entire future, a whole future of yourself and of the family taken away from you.
MR DE BRUIN
That’s correct.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I’d like to ask something specific about the event itself. Who picked up your son from the place where he lay dead?
MR DE BRUIN
It was the ambulance man, Dirk de Koker who picked him up and put him in the ambulance and then took him to the hospital.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
And was this on the road outside the shop where he was picked up?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes about 15 to 20 metres away from the shop in the road, on the pavement.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Not on the pavement, in the road.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes it was in the road.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Just to reiterate the fact that people who saw what happened said that he was outside with the other marchers when he was shot.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes he was outside. How do you mean outside?
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
On the road he did not go ... I just want to emphasise that they were outside marching to make the demands for improvements on the conditions of the township.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
This newspaper where it was stated that a broken bottle was found in the shop, what newspaper was it?
MR DE BRUIN
I think it was the Worcester Standard.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
So it was a local newspaper?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes, I still have the newspaper at home.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
So you still have the newspaper at home?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes and I did give it to the Commission.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I know that we have the paper but can you just tell us for the record do you know who the Editor of that newspaper is?
MR DE BRUIN
No.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I just wanted to find out. So it was only in the local newspaper, in other words it was just the Worcester local newspaper where this was reported?
MR DE BRUIN
I think it also appeared in Die Burger and I think there was something in that Sunday’s Rapport but I can’t remember clearly.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Just those three, the one local newspaper and the two Afrikaans newspapers carried that report of the bottle?
MR DE BRUIN
I don’t know whether any of the English newspapers carried any reports about the matter, I don’t know.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
That Sunday’s Rapport and Die Burger carried the report, is that what you’re telling us?
MR DE BRUIN
Yes.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I’m asking because it’s important for us to trace the sources of that information about the bottle and just to establish what kind of rationale was given for the death of your son to the newspaper. It you find out who the reporter is who wrote that article then she or he may be able to tell us who gave the information and will be able to have something to establish what the facts are.
In your statement to our investigators, Brenda, Mark and Chandre from our Investigating Unit, you stated that there was a policeman who came up to the woman who shot your late son and commended her for the action that she took and according to the information in the investigators report, this policeman said, good shot lady.
MR DE BRUIN
Yes, that was what the witness told the police. He heard that the policeman said, good show lady, good show and he gave his name as well to the woman who fired the shot. There were other witnesses who also saw that and heard that, how the policeman told the woman that - good show.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
... right now that, you know, looking at Mrs De Bruin that you are talking on behalf of the family and both of yourselves and in a way as I’ve heard from a number of witnesses who have come up here talking about the pain provides a kind of relief and release. So for you personally this is what it may do and I would like to know from you what does the experience of talking in front of the Commission do to you?
MR DE BRUIN
Well at the moment I’m feeling, I don’t quite know how to put it but I feel better than when I arrived here this morning. The circumstances surrounding the situation, the fact that there is still so much uncertainty, that bothers me a lot because to think that a person can just be shot like that and the person who did it gets away with it, that really, really upsets me. To think that there were so many policemen present on that day and they did nothing.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
I’m also wondering how Mrs De Bruin feels because she obviously hasn’t been able to talk about it publicly as you have had the opportunity to do and I’m wondering what her feelings are. I don’t know whether se would like to say something about this but I can speak to the Chairperson to find out how he would handle this himself because she hasn’t been sworn in.
ADV POTGIETER
If Mrs De Bruin also wishes to make a statement then we can receive that but then she’ll just have to be sworn in.
MRS DE BRUIN: (sworn states)
I’ll hand you over to my colleague Miss Gobodo.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Mrs De Bruin I’d like you to share with us what your feeling are about the loss of your son.
ME DE BRUIN
Today it is very painful for me to speak about it because I feel as if this happened today. This child left the school that afternoon and I went to fetch my little girl from the nursery school and I saw him at the corner when he said to me, mother you must please go home and make food for us, I’ll be home in a moment.
I went home and I said to the little girl that we should go and look what the young people are doing because I was scared that something would happen that day. We then prepared ourselves to go and see what was happening. We were walking down the road and we saw some other people who were also on their way to see what the children were doing. When I got to the shop we heard the children shouting and screaming and then they came and told me that my son was shot.
I asked them if he was dead but they didn’t reply so I ran down the road to the shop and when I got there the police shouted at me, go back, go back but I kept running until I got there. They cordoned the road and blocked the shop and I asked them whether they shot my child and they said they didn’t shoot the child, it was someone else. I tried to push through them but they pushed me back. I turned around and ran away to the hospital. I was shouting Jacques my child, my child where are you, where are you? I then heard that my child was dead when I came home. It was not a nice day for me, my heart is still sore for this child, he was my right hand. He was like a daughter and a son to me, he helped me with everything. I want her to be punished for this deed that she did. She had no right to come and say to us that she was sorry for us.
There were so many different stories that my son was in her shop and he wasn’t in her shop.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Mrs De Bruin it seems very easy for some people to just shoot at others as if they’re not human beings like themselves. It’s very difficult for all of us to understand how all those things are possible.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Pumla. Thank you Mrs De Bruin and thank you also Mr De Bruin we know that it is difficult to say something to you that would comfort you because whatever one might say nothing will take away the fact that your son is dead. Nothing will take away the fact that the dreams of which you spoke have also been taken away with him. We heard what you said, we heard that it helps to know what the truth is and what actually happened and this brings some comfort. Your case is in the Commission’s hands. Later today we will hear a version on behalf of the person who shot. The entire matter will be investigated and we will do our best at least to give you a picture of what really happened on that day. We hope that this will bring some peace in your heart. We thank you for sharing your story with us, especially Mrs De Bruin, it is very clear that the wounds are still very raw for you and we hope that with time there will be peace in your heart too. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
