CHAIRPERSON: Thank you people, can we proceed ? I want to start off by apologizing to all those people who have come and want to make a statement. We were expecting statement takers to come from Rustenburg, but they haven’t arrived yet. I will, I will continue to make announcements, either if they do come or if they don’t come, as what we’re going to do to help you make your statement. I just want to reassure you that your statement will be taken, so please don’t get anxious about that. Thank you. Mr Seroke, good afternoon.
MR SEROKE: Good afternoon.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Seroke, will you introduce the young man that is with you ?
MR SEROKE: He’s Mr Frans Peko.
CHAIRPERSON: Is he a friend of yours ?
MR SEROKE: That’s my friend Sir.
CHAIRPERSON: Welcome him too. I’m going to ask Professor Piet Meiring to take the oath with you, if you can just stand please.
PROF. MEIRING: Mr Seroke stand and your hand in the air please and say, everything I say will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
MOSIMANEGAPI SEROKE: (Sworn states)
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you very much. You may sit down.
CHAIRPERSON: Miss Joyce Seroke is going to help you as you tell your statement. Miss Seroke ?
MISS SEROKE: Good morning, Sir.
MR SEROKE: Good morning, Ma’am.
MISS SEROKE: Are you Soreko or Sereko ?
MR SEREKO: My name, my surname is Sereko. It has been spelt wrongly. They gave me my surname.
MISS SEROKE: I thought you were my brother. We thank you for coming and we welcome your friend, who accompanied you. You are coming to tell us of what has happened on the 14th of December 1989 in Lefurutse when you and Jopa Ndebele were assaulted by the police. We ask you to explain to us what was happening at that time.
MR SEREKO: May I start ? In 1989, in December, there was confusion in our village. We were attacked at night. There were knocking at people’s doors. They were taking roofs off the houses. We negotiated, as the youth, that it’s painful whilst we’re asleep, we would hear our neighbour screaming and we do nothing about it.
It happened that on the 12th, it was on a Friday. A certain neighbour was screaming and running towards our house. We woke up to see what was happening. We went out to her house, we saw a certain man running, we chased him but we couldn’t catch him because it was at night and there were no lights. Then on that Friday again, we agreed that we should mobilise ourselves to protect our community against the police and even against those people who are attacking us. We did that, we as a youth went to the tribal councillor. We asked him to take us to the Chief to explain of what was happening. We told him what was happening, that people were disappearing, that we as a youth, we tried to trace those who had, who have disappeared. That tribal councilor explained to us that he’s experiencing the same thing because he was saying his son has come back home from his shack house. He told us that it is during the night, we cannot go to the Chief but he said again that because he’s working with the Chief, he would explain to the Chief of our problem and again he allowed us to go on with our work to protect the community. After that we went to the village to request the youth. All of us agreed, mobilised ourselves and we went to the road to Mafeking, others on the entrance to Nteqwana, others to the road leading to Sepere so that we would observe all cars which are coming inside our village as whether are they were coming to attack us or are they coming peacefully. We who were at the entrance to Zeerust, met a Hippo, then they asked us what we were doing. We were explain to them that we have problems. We are protecting our community because there are people that are attacking us at night. Those policemen asked us, what authority, who gave you the authority to protect your community? We explained to them that the tribal councillor gave us the go ahead to protect and then again he’s going to meet the Chief to explain him of our problem. They asked us about a certain car which has proceeded towards our direction but we told them that we did not see that car.
We patrolled our village the whole night and then in the morning until, in the morning we didn’t see any car coming towards our village. The following day, on a Saturday, we called a meeting of all community members and to explain to the Chief of our problem. During that meeting, we explained the problem but adults said to us, we are children and we don’t know anything and we will not achieve everything. They told us that there are police who are doing that work and that work is for the police only. We, we could see the attitude of the police, that they were not, they were against the idea that we should protect the community, but because the Chief and his tribal council agreed with us, therefore we were willing to protect and to help because in many instances we were see people who left their houses to work, their families are not protected. In our discussions with the Chief and the community, the Chief and his Councillors rejected our offer but we told them that we understand what they’re saying but we said to them, we are going to continue with our work whether you like it or not, because we don’t want to hear any person, or we don’t want to see any person being attacked by any people we don’t know. It will be our responsibility to arrest any person who is attacking anyone who is in our community.
Then our Chief agreed that he was going to meet Chief Monamere on the Tuesday to tell them about our problem. We told them that it is now Saturday, if you’re going to tell us on Tuesday, if anything happens during the interim, that any person disappears or somebody is killed, whose responsibility is it going to be? But we were not answered but alternately Chief and his Councillors instructed us that they will address us on Tuesday to tell us of their reply. But we told that the very same day, on Saturday, we will continue with our work. During that night on a Saturday, we offered that we will patrol our village.
During the night, it might be around 10 o’clock, we were on the road towards Dinogama. A car came towards us and the owner of that car, he was our neighbour and he was a policeman, together with his wife. We stopped that car, we spoke to the driver, we asked him, where is he going, but he said to us he’s going to the restaurant, but we said, for us to believe that you’re going to the restaurant leave your spare wheel and go with some of us, so as we may certify as whether you are going there or you’re using this reason as an, as an excuse.
After that, after some time they came back and we agreed, we saw that he was a visitor and then we saw him that he was innocent. A certain car was owned by Mr and Mrs Legotlo. When we looked at that car, he was together with the Chief and together with his town council. All of them were seven in that car. We asked them, where do you come from during this time of the night? They answered that, as we said that we’re going to the Chief on Tuesday, we saw it fit that we should meet the Chief now to explain to him all your problems, but we asked them, why do you hold this meeting at night? Then they said, we went at night because we were at work, then now, after knocked off, we decided that we should go there during the night. We asked them, as you are going to the Chief were you not at work, but they told us that they wanted to do their tribal responsibilities first, then thereafter they would go to the Chief. We told them that because you come from the Chief at night, you’ll take the responsibly that those people who are attacking us at night. It seems you are the very same people whom we are looking for.
After we said that some of our group wanted to fight with the Chief and his council, but we reprimanded them that these are old people. We will talk with them the following day. We stayed there patrolling the village. We patrolled the whole night.
Then on Sunday, as I’m a citizen of Kutswana, that’s staying at the end of the village, in the afternoon of that day, whilst I was pre myself to go to the sports ground the police came and assaulted some of the people in our village. Some people were arrested who were selling liquor. Even the person who is sitting next to me, he, since he was beaten from that Sunday. Our parents supported us and went to the police station to plead with the police for our release. We went to play soccer until late in the afternoon. Our induna, who’s Jack Tobe, came to us and said we should not patrol on that Sunday, we should sit down with him and discuss this problem, but we told him that we will talk whilst we are still patrolling, because if you’re going to sit down, many things are going to be wasted. He tried to negotiate with us, but some of us told him that we saw the Chief in the evening and now we see you again, so we don’t want to see you in the evening. That Sunday passed by.
On a Monday, Mr Isak Moloi, who is our neighbour who was the police officer in our local police station came to the village and they were armed with guns, with four cars and one private car. Their intention was that they had a list of people who were written on that list and they were coming to collect those people that appeared on that list. Ultimately, all of us we were taken by those police cars, even if he didn’t appear on the list, but they would make you to go into the car. Then they took us to Motswedi. When we alighted at those police cars we arrived among the police. The police they did torture us at that time. They did to us many things, terrible things. I don’t believe that if something can do those things to them, they will stand for it. They tortured us from Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. They were torturing us all the time, even when they were taking statements from us, they were assaulting us too and forcing us to write what they want us to write, not what we want to write. We completed writing those statements on Wednesday, but we knew that we were arrested because we were patrolling, but they said we are overthrowing the government.
On Tuesday, we appeared in court. We were prosecuted in court, then the Magistrate gave us a free bail. We went home at that time, on Tuesday, on Thursday. On Friday we were taken to Dr Koch in Zeerust and he gave us medical treatment and gave us medication. Dr Koch gave us a lawyer who’d defend us in court. We had our meeting in Wimberbag, at the Lutheran Church. From there we went home. After that we started being prosecuted then up to 1992. At the end the case was dismissed because we were not found guilty.
Then, thereafter we talked amongst ourselves knowing that we don’t have the future for us because we wanted to lay a civil claim against the police. Ultimately, we didn’t, we didn’t have money to go forward with the civil claim. We said, because we were not found guilty, we’ll try that all community meetings, we should look for authority, even if the Chief can write us a letter and call us to his office, we will not go there. All of us who were arrested, we were twenty one, agreed that we would not go to any tribal meeting, we’ll not associate ourselves with the Chief. That’s all what I can testify to.
We stayed from 1989 up to now. Some of us are infected with TB’s and we are affected by many diseases and we are not able to find work because, if you go to Slurry, our neighbours would say we are the people who are overthrowing the government, therefore there is nowhere where we can be employed.
MISS SEROKE: Thank you, Mr Sereko. I will ask you two or three questions. You are here to tell us about yourself and Jopa Ndebele who is your friend. I want to ask you, where is Jopa Ndebele now ?
MR SEREKO: Mr Jopa Ndebele, in February he went to a place called Muldersdrift. That is where they plant tomatoes. His workers came home, but he didn’t, we didn’t see
him up to now. He’s not at home, he went to Muldersdrift. I don’t know where this Muldersdrift is in the map of South Africa.
MISS SEROKE: You tell us that there were people who were attacking your village and people were disappearing. Who were, who were those people who were attacking your area to the point where you mobilised yourselves to patrol your community ?
MR SEREKO: To tell you the truth we don’t know those people but in terms of a certain incident, the, one of our neighbours tried, those people tried to attack those people, but the committee members were able to help those people. That is the one who we took - against, but those who were, but I hope that those people were hired, those, the time we started to patrol, we were not able to see them, because cars were not allowed to enter the village.
MISS SEROKE: When you say, those people were hired to come and attack your village, in your observation, were they working for the previous government or were they just ordinary people ?
MR SEREKO: There was someone, I’m respecting his identity, who is our neighbour and he was a member of parliament. That’s one of those people. There are other people in our area whom they were giving a hundred rands or five hundred rands to go and do those things. We were not able to identify those people, but I know of one person, whom I know, who is part of those group who attacked us.
MISS SEROKE: When they were doing these things, what was happening in you community, which they disliked to the degree that they hired people to attack the village?
MR SEREKO: May you repeat your question ?
MISS SEROKE: When these people were doing those things and hiring people and
other people were disappearing, in your observation those people who were doing those things, what was their objective, what was it they didn’t like in your area ?
MR SEREKO: What they did is what we didn’t like. They wanted to enrich themselves. We were agreeing with them, but later we said we would not let people disappear in that way.
MISS SEROKE: When you say they were enriching themselves, how, how did they enrich themselves, what did they do?
MR SEREKO: They wanted to enrich themselves to take people’s parts as muti to, then they would take your parts to - and go with them.
MISS SEROKE: Did you see people who were, whose parts were taken or was it just a rumour, or just an allegation that those things were happening ?
MR SEREKO: We didn’t see the victims of those people, but because people from, from the vine tree, we just heard from the grapevine and then one child was nearly abducted, but our parents took him from one of the shops. It was a boy and a girl. Whilst they were kidnapped, a girl was able to run away and went to call all people in the village and they were able to come and free the boy, because that is our example that those people were taking people’s parts.
MISS SEROKE: Apart from taking people’s parts, was there a kind of political activity happening in, in your area ?
MR SEREKO: Yes, there was a certain political activity happening in our area, because in that year in 1989, there was an ANC organisation which used to hold meetings in my father’s house. It seems they were after ANC members and then they couldn’t find
ANC members and we didn’t expose our membership, because we were afraid to go to
prison or to be killed, but we were ANC underground, we were ANC members underground. That is the first organisation which in our village. We were given advices by African National Congress.
MISS SEROKE: In 1989, ANC was not there or was not in public. I agree with you when you say it was operating underground, but I want to understand that when you were patrolling the community, were you doing this with political objective from the ANC policy to protect the community ?
MR SEREKO: We were patrolling to protect the community, because the police were not co-operative with our work and, and I’m alone, I was doing the patrol work with political objective because I was seeing that we were losing our property and ultimately we’re going to disappear and that’s how we started mobilising ourselves to patrol the community.
MISS SEROKE: So the police came there and took you to the police station. Were they Boputhatswana police ?
MR SEREKO: Yes, they were Boputhatswana police who were stationed at Motzwete village.
MISS SEROKE: Who called these police to come to your village to arrest you ?
MR SEREKO: We don’t have the answer of who called the police but there was this one-way system which was used by the police to communicate, but we think somebody used that to call the police.
MISS SEROKE: You say these police tortured you many things. I’d want you to explain how they tortured you. The things which you say you cannot explain.
MR SEREKO: They were torturing us in many ways as I would say. They came to me and they said, they want keys, then they pushed me to a corner and kicked me on my private parts and they mishandles my private parts. Then I told them that I don’t have the key which you are looking for. We were made to stand on our head down then they will take your legs and hit them aganst the wall. I was together with my friend whose sitting next to me. His cheek bones were broken. They would kicked him on the cheek bones. We had a certain Albino, then they said, do you think Albino’s are not assaulted? You will see that we can assault an Albino. We were assaulted in different ways. After beating us they would make us to exercise in different ways. From there we were taken to the wall. They would take a hosepipe, then they would put that hosepipe, they will point that hosepipe to you, then they will point it on your eyes. We were tortured in many ways.
MISS SEROKE: Is Dr Koch still available in this area ?
MR SEREKO: We don’t see him anymore in the Zeerust hospital. We don’t know where he is now. We don’t have the knowledge of his whereabouts, as whether he’s around or not.
MRS SEROKE: The lawyer who helped you, do you know his whereabouts ? Do you know his address ?
MR SEREKO: Yes, I know where he is. He’s in ... (tape ended)
MISS SEROKE: Sitting next to you and give him the name of the doctor and the lawyer and again the addresses of them both. Thank you Mr Sereko.
CHAIRPERSON: Dr Ally !
DR ALLY: Mr Sereko, do you know of people who actually disappeared, because you
speak about people disappearing from your village ?
MR SEREKO: There’s no one who disappeared, because the one who was supposed to be made to disappear was able to be found.
DR ALLY: And that the main reason that you started patrolling was to prevent any future disappearances. Is that correct ?
MR SEREKO: That’s true. That’s true because we were able to rescue somebody from a shop. Somebody was supposed to be made to disappear and was helped by a car from Dinoganeng and she was a mess. I was not able to contact myself with him, but the first one we were able to meet and I asked him some questions and told him that you are wanted to appear so as to expose those people who were making you to disappear, but he said to me he doesn’t care about those things and he’s working. He doesn’t want to lose his work.
DR ALLY: These people who were thought to be responsible for trying to abduct people, did they come from another village ? Is that what you’re saying ?
MR SEREKO: Those people who were abducting our people, they are working together with a certain neighbour of ours. We know his house. He, that person is staying in our area and that person was dealing with those people from outside.
DR ALLY: And this shop where this person was allegedly found, where was this shop? In your village?
MR SEREKO: Yes, it was in our village.
DR ALLY: Now these people that you speak about, the neighbour, the people from the other village, the people at the shop, politically, did you know, have any idea of where they, where they stood politically? What their political views were, who they supported politically ? Is that, was that ever a factor ?
MR SEREKO: Those people were supporters of the Christian Democratic Party.
DR ALLY: Look, you’re sure about that?
MR SEREKO: Yes, I’m definitely sure about it. I’m sure about it, because in - I’ll put it very straight that that person was a Member of Parliament in the former government.
DR ALLY: And you believe that these people were assisting in trying to abduct people?
MR SEREKO: Yes, they were helping in abducting the people in our village.
DR ALLY: But nobody was abducted from your village you said. There was an attempt but the person was found?
MR SEREKO: Yes, that’s true. There was no person who was abducted.
DR ALLY: That - you patrolled your village in order to protect the community. Now how did you actually do this? You gave us one example of a car and you stopped the car and you said to the person must leave the spare tyre behind. What else did you do when you were patrolling to protect the community, what kinds of things did you do?
MR SEREKO: We were manning a roadblock at Dinokana, at the exit to Zeerust. We were sleeping in the veld, then we’ll put one boy with a torch. When a car approaches, he will stop that car, after it has stopped, we would come from the veld then we’d count the car, then from there we would go to the car, but ultimately, firstly is that car which, who, whom the, the owner gave us the spare wheel and the SADF hippo and the Chief’s car. Even, even in the village, we would have people who, who’d patrol and keep on observing all the houses inside to the village.
DR ALLY: Did you ever have an incident where a car refused to stop or where the people in the car were angry with you for trying to stop them ?
MR SEREKO: No, Sir.
DR ALLY: No incidents where people refused to stop ?
MR SEREKO: No, Sir.
DR ALLY: Now you say that you were actually charged, but you don’t tell us what, what was the charge. You went to court and you had a lawyer and you were charged. What was the charge that they laid against you ?
MR SEREKO: We were charged with overthrowing the government. We were not committing sabotage, but we patrolling our area because the police were not coming to protect the, our community.
DR ALLY: The charge that you wanted to overthrow the government, is that what the charge sheet said, or did it say something else? Did it say public violence perhaps, or, can you remember ?
MR SEREKO: It was about public violence. They were saying we were committing sabotage.
DR ALLY: Where there any, did they produce any witnesses ? Did any people come to court to testify against you ?
MR SEREKO: Yes, we had witnesses who testified for the state whom we were meeting with them in the roads during our patrols.
DR ALLY: What did these witnesses say in court ? Can you give us a - can you
remember what kind of things were they saying ?
MR SEREKO: The witnesses were testifying about what appeared on the records by saying we were overthrowing the government.
DR ALLY: Did they accuse you of assault, of forcefully stopping people, forcing people to get out of motor cars? Anything like that ?
MR SEREKO: We were not found guilty during that court case.
DR ALLY: And did you yourself institute any action against the police who you say tortured you ? Did you lay a charge against them ?
MR SEREKO: We didn’t lay a charge against the police, because what I would say is that we couldn’t do anything, because those people were our government and we were subjected by their actions.
DR ALLY: Thank you.
PROF. MEIRING: Mr Sereko, just a few brief questions about your own personal circumstances. You were about twenty four years of age when you were arrested, is that correct? It was in 1989 when it happened. 1989. Twenty four years.
MR SEREKO: I, I’m not sure how old I was.
PROF. MEIRING: Did you go to school ?
MR SEREKO: Yes, I did.
PROF. MEIRING: When did you leave the school ?
MR SEREKO: I left school in 1983.
PROF. MEIRING: And what standard did you achieve at that stage ?
MR SEREKO: Standard seven, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Seven. And did you work ?
MR SEREKO: I worked in the mines.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you. And are you still working in the mines ?
MR SEREKO: No, I’m not working in the mine, in the mines. I left in 1989 after I’ve been dismissed.
PROF. MEIRING: Were you able to work afterwards, or did you not find work after, after your torture.
MR SEREKO: I was employed at Mosalami Game Reserve, then I was dismissed because they said I am not wanted because I was the person who was trying to overthrow the government.
PROF. MEIRING: Are you married ?
MR SEREKO: I’m not married, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Do you have children that you have to care for ?
MR SEREKO: I’ve two children whom I’m taking care of.
PROF. MEIRING: How old are they ?
MR SEREKO: The first one was born in 1984, the second one was born in 1994.
PROF. MEIRING: The last question is just about your parents. Are you parents still living and where do they live ?
MR SEREKO: My parents are still alive. They’re staying just at home. My parent is working at the military base in Zeerust.
PROF. MEIRING: While you are unable to work, you’ve been dismissed from the Game Reserve who looks after you and your children? Where do you find money to live from?
MR SEREKO: My parents take care of me and I’m trying temporary work in
our village.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you very much. That completes my questions.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Seroke, just some clarification. Sereko. I just want clarification. You say that you are part of the ANC underground. The police, when they arrested you and were torturing you, in your statement you said they kept making the comment that we don’t want politicians in the area and also you were charged with trying to overthrow the government. Can you just give us some, your own perspective of those things that I’ve just said ?
MR SEREKO: We were just young people who didn’t understand anything. For me to understand is when I met ANC people to teach me about my human rights and about other people’s human rights. After that I associated with the ANC’s policies and listened to other youths and respect other people, then I would explain about my association with ANC people to the local youth that we should do the right things. Our parents in their committee meetings, we as children, we were not able to advise the older people, but we, we briefed ourselves that we should advise our parents because our parents are old and they were illiterate. Ultimately, when we wanted to talk, they say we are talking politics. At that time we were not clear what is politics and what is not politics. That is then, therefore, that our parents said we are politics whilst we were not agreeing with them. That is then that I said, we, the children, can know what’s about politics.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sereko, for coming here to-day. Your story is a very complicated story, but it shows up again the brutality of the police and we will be hearing many stories of what the police did in this area, during to-day and to-morrow.
I’m glad you’ve, you’ve survived to tell the story and thank you very much for coming here to-day.
