Human Rights Violation Hearings

CCHAIRPERSON: Can we now ask Mr Fundile Lawrence Gqubule to

take over. Thank you Mr Nkobese. We are going to ask the

next witness to come forward.

FUNDILE LAWRENCE GQUBULE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Let me start off by making sure about some

details. Do you stay in number 26 Sedidi, Khayelitsha?

MR GQUBULE: Yes, it is like that.

CHAIRPERSON: At the time there was a shooting in Uitenhage

in 1985, were you a resident here?

MR GQUBULE: Yes, it is like that.

CHAIRPERSON: What street were you staying?

MR GQUBULE: It was number 14 at Gunsi Street.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this Gunsi Street near this spot of

shooting in Maduna Street?

MR GQUBULE: No, it's not near.

CHAIRPERSON: I observe that you are in a wheelchair. Is

this as a result of an injury when there was a shooting?

MR GQUBULE: Yes, it's like that.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you explain, Mr Gqubule. Where were you

on this particular day, and what actually happened?

MR GQUBULE: On this day, on a Tuesday morning, I just had a

bath and I heard some freedom songs and I went out and I saw

a crowd moving toward Maduna. Then I stood on the roof of

the house because I couldn't see clearly. At the time I

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was looking at Maduna, I saw a hippo that was driving

amongst the people as the people were standing waiting for

the bus. So I saw this hippo dispersing the people. Then

there were some South African Defence Force next to Maduna,

so I stood there watching the people who were being chased

and the hippo trying to disperse the people. Then I saw a

group of people moving down Maduna and so I went down the

road and I went up Gonchi Street and next to the hall I

joined the crowd and we were chanting freedom songs. There

was a hippo just in front of us, and it drove past and

stopped next to the John Wesley Church. They were chasing

us. Then that is the last I can remember because I just

heard some bullet sounds.

CHAIRPERSON: At what stage were you hit by a bullet?

MR GQUBULE: It was at Khlamthini when I was hit by a bullet

and I heard some shooting sounds and I felt something on my

right ankle and people were turning around and running and I

don't know what happened. Then I lay there on the ground.

I was the first person to be taken and I could see some

people were being shot and I could see these people lying

down there on the ground, they had some bottles placed on

their hands.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were lying there on the ground, what

did you see?

MR GQUBULE: I saw a helicopter.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any policemen that were moving up

and down next to you as you were lying there on the ground?

MR GQUBULE: Yes there were.

CHAIRPERSON: What were they doing?

MR GQUBULE: People were being kicked and they were being

shot. Some were being pulled out of the bridge.

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CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you said there was a boy who

was riding a BMX bicycle, do you see that boy here now?

MR GQUBULE: Yes I do see him.

CHAIRPERSON: What is his name?

MR GQUBULE: His name is Kwanele Bucwa.

CHAIRPERSON: You fell down and you were shot, then how did

you get to the hospital?

MR GQUBULE: As I was lying there in pain, I decided not to

scream because most people were being killed and were

screaming. I was then put into the first ambulance together

with Nlungi Simclagahle and some other people.

CHAIRPERSON: Now would you say how long did this shooting

take place?

MR GQUBULE: I would say for about an hour.

CHAIRPERSON: As you were lying there, were they still

shooting?

MR GQUBULE: Yes, they were still shooting and people were

coming from shacks in Nimkhi who were coming to join some

people from section 15 and they were being shot.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there anything that was said by these

policemen at the time that there was shooting? What were

they saying?

MR GQUBULE: I didn't hear anything because I was really in

deep pain at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: How did this affect this shooting? How did it

affect your body, how did it affect your health? Is there

any medical treatment you are getting?

MR GQUBULE: There is none. What happens is when it is

overcast my body becomes stiff.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you have to say Mr Gqubule, as to

what you saw on this particular day?

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MR GQUBULE: I was transferred from the Uitenhage hospital

to a hospital in Port Elizabeth were I met Lungi Sinlagashe.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they also shot?

MR GQUBULE: Yes they were.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you explain what you saw in hospital,

what did you see in hospital?

MR GQUBULE: I saw a lot of policemen, they were all over

the place, inside and outside, and some people were sneaking

out of the hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any policemen in the hospital?

MR GQUBULE: Yes there were.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Khaan you say is the one who examined you

in hospital, what did he say was the cause of the injuries

you had?

MR GQUBULE: He said they had shot me on the spinal cord and

he said they could not take out the bullet because if they

had to do that I would be completely paralysed.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you say, as you are sitting there, there

is a bullet that is embedded here in your body?

MR GQUBULE: Yes it is there.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this the cause of it that when it is

overcast you feel some pain and your body becomes stiff?

MR GQUBULE: Yes I would say that is the cause.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you ever briefed any lawyer about this

matter?

MR GQUBULE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were called which in Jubilee Hall,

what was happening?

MR GQUBULE: I was in hospital at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: So you actually did not go to Jubilee Hall?

MR GQUBULE: No, I didn't go, it is only my parents who went

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there.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they say to you when they came back

from Jubilee Hall?

MR GQUBULE: They said to me, there were discussions with

the White people and they had been promised that some tax

would be sent to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any cheque that your parents

received?

MR GQUBULE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any money that was given to you for

this shooting?

MR GQUBULE: There is some money I got. Some people from

the bank came to me whilst I was in hospital and so I

signed, I was still in hospital at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you have to say?

MR GQUBULE: On my way from 27, I was forced to go back to

Cape Town because after I had been shot I had abscess and

some fluid coming out of my knees, so I had to go back to

Conradie Hospital because this left leg was giving me

problems and it was to be amputated.

CHAIRPERSON: By being here, Mr Gqubule, what is your actual

wish, or your request to this Commission?

MR GQUBULE: My request to this Commission is that they

should see to it that we should have some sports fields for

the paraplegics. I used to be a soccer player.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Gqubule for your explanation, I

can now hand over to the Chairperson so that if any of my

colleagues here have got any questions they should pose them

to you.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you Mr Gqubule, can you hear me?

MR GQUBULE: Yes, I can hear you.

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PANEL MEMBER: How old were you when you were shot?

MR GQUBULE: Round about 20 something.

PANEL MEMBER: Mr Gqubule, we want to be able to determine

the impact of your injuries. Would you please describe a

day in your life starting when you get up, to determine how

you cope on a day to day basis?

MR GQUBULE: When I wake up in the morning, I just try to

exercise a little bit and I take a bath. My wife usually

dresses me and I have breakfast, and visit friends, nothing

else.

PANEL MEMBER: So it means that without the assistance and

support of your wife, it would be difficult for you to

function on a day to day basis, is that correct?

MR GQUBULE: That is correct.

PANEL MEMBER: You say that you were an athlete before your

injuries?

MR GQUBULE: That is correct.

PANEL MEMBER: Before your injuries, what were your dreams

and your plans for your future?

MR GQUBULE: I was dreaming of being a sportsman and an

educated person, but because of the fact that we were very

poor and my parents and I did not have a lot of facilities.

PANEL MEMBER: Mr Gqubule, this is a very difficult question

but I need to ask you. On a day to day basis when you think

about what could have been, and what is now, what goes

through your mind, and what emotions are surfaced in you?

MR GQUBULE: It is very painful to see myself in this

condition. When I see other people I just think that if I

was not in this condition I was going to be somewhere else

just like a certain person.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you, my last question. I know you

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haven't really asked for anything, but you also say you are

not receiving treatment. I ask again, is there anything you

would like the commission to take care of?

MR GQUBULE: I would like to have a better wheelchair than

the one I have right now.

PANEL MEMBER: And continued medical care?

MR GQUBULE: I don't think I need any special treatment

medication, besides the fact that sometimes I'm trembling.

I think it is because of this bullet that is in my body.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I might want to

come back to Mr Gqubule when we summarise at the end. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Maya is going to lead the next witness.

MS MAYA: Just before we leave Mr Gqubule. Your life is in

this condition today, I want to get clarity, when you think

back, who is responsible for this?

MR GQUBULE: I can say it is Boers, I only know that I'm

here today, I am like this because of the Boers.

MS MAYA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Gqubule.