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people's warExplanation In the old apartheid regime, when they called you a very good cop, you’re a cop who takes orders and execute them without asking questions; then you’re a good cop. // You obviously heard of your colleagues at Vlakplaas who were involved in killing people as well. // Yes, that came to my ... I remember two days before that fateful day my wife and I and another couple were driving to Natal where I was going to address a graduation function at the Lutheran Theological College. And on our way out we got word that Ike had been detained the night before. We thought it was one of those ... By the 15th of June, 1986 many of the experienced activists were in detention or in the underground. But across the valley a group of young comrades had gathered on a hill to prepare for the next day’s June 16 commemoration. Again the enemy came in the night. When they had finished their job six ... Although the ‘Handelsinstituut’ was one of those to criticize the wealth tax, they were the only ones to come with some kind of alternative. They suggest that the old South African Security Risk Insurance Fund, which was used to insure people against political violence in the past, be used for ... But when the interrogation started, Benzien and Nortje were present. They were the only other people in the room with me and when they started interrogating me the intimidation had already taken effect. This intimidation of me had already started when I was in this room and the security policeman ... Numsa Tshabalala says her son Sibuniso disappeared shortly after Lolo Sono. // Then he said, if you say Lolo was taken by Winnie Madikizela’s people then probably I will be taken there as well. And we left for work, when we came back Sibuniso was not at home. When Sibuniso had gone, that is after ... Although she denies all knowledge of the assassination plan Derby-Lewis told the Amnesty Committee that she believed it was politically inspired. This is what she told the police during her interrogation in 1993. // We had minimal contact with the right in terms of being involved with them. I ... As an individual and perhaps being involved with quite a number of others it shows the recognitions of the efforts of those who fought against apartheid. And it does not only show how good and how well deserving their struggle was, but at the same time it shows appreciation of the people that were ... Were there cases in which special forces cooperated with the police in eliminating people i.e. killing people in accordance with the plan that you testified to before lunch. // That is correct. // And are those the matters in respect of which you have applied for amnesty? // That is correct. // ... Did you ever before today disclose that fact that you were a policeman when you were serving on the Star? // No I did not. // Is it today the first time actually that you disclose that? // That I’m disclosing that, yes. Other people may have had, Mr. Chair if I may add, their suspicions and I ... ‘On Hearings…’ // My heart goes out for the women, because the women always come there talking about what happened to their sons, to their husbands, they hardly tell us about what has happened and yet when you probe deeper you’ll also find that they also experienced violations and some of ... If you did hear from the passengers that she was also a Comrade, that day, would you have acted any differently? // I don’t think so. // Can you elaborate? // At the time, we were in very high spirits and the white people were oppressive. We had no mercy on the white people; a white person was a ... We had come to the end of our tether. We’d been involved in that kind of thing seeing patients, seeing people being killed for 12 months already and all because I wanted to go and heal people and not kill them. And we went to see the local psychiatrist who was resident in Oshakati and the major ... The room was full of blood, on the walls, and they said to me ‘do you see the blood on the walls?’ They said ‘this is the blood from the people like you, people who do not want to speak the truth.’ Before they could grab me they said, they asked me about Tsepho, that’s my aunt’s child. ... Instructions I got from Johns were that myself and Andile will be my assistant in that unit as an assistant commander. He also led me to two gentlemen and also gave us instruction that we should go to New Castle, and fire arms are already New Castle, and when we arrive in New Castle we’ll attack ... We’ve had a great reluctance on the part of individuals to talk about what happened in the region because of this difficulty with the amnesty provision, that it may not necessarily apply, an amnesty granted here doesn’t apply say in Botswana. And that of course has been a major disincentive for ... I was in the field with my animals, with the cows under a tree. While I was sitting there relaxing, and the cows were grazing, I just saw something like a car and when I looked at it I saw a group of people. I started to run away. I tried to, but they beat me and the others were screaming at me, ... Some preferred to stay behind. And this week they told the Commission of torture, of killings and of the pain that is so hard to forget. // He removed those electric wires from my neck and then they turned me on the other side. He opened my trousers at the back and then they took these electric ... ... to members from National Intelligence, Military Intelligence, as well as the other intelligence agencies and nobody seems to be able to come forward with any shred of evidence. We are investigating this case as a murder case, be it KwaZulu police involvement, the KwaZulu government ... It was not our purpose to kill as many people as possible. Our purpose was to prove that if these attacks were launched against the Boer people that we would retaliate, that we would hit back. There’s no point in just shooting people at random, then we could have done that in Richards Bay for ... |
