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people's warExplanation ... What is your personal feeling? // I am sorry for the victims and the family of the victims. Because at the end of the day they did not fight in the war. So in that regard I am sorry. I am sorry for them, for the people who had to suffer. And I apologise. // If you look back, was it worth it? // ... A memorial service brings conciliation but for many it can only dress the wound. For healing and for the pain to stop it is necessary to take leave of the bones and the body, to bid farewell to the only real reminder of a life that is gone. // A human being is not an animal, a beast, to be killed ... Actually, it was a lie that I was tortured by ministers like the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Alfred Nzo and it was also lies that I was tortured by the late Chris Hani and also the late Secretary-General of the ANC, Thomas Nkobi. So, those were lies, but also within my statement that I made, my ... ... and consequences on behalf of your men? // Yes. // And is that still your feeling today? // Yes, I take full responsibility from myself downward, for all my men’s actions, but not for those above me – not anymore. // Did you also expect the same from people who gave you orders? // ... The chain of command and hence responsibility for these illegal acts and conspiracies reach high into the structures of the state and government and certainly included cabinet ministers, Military Intelligence, the CCB, the South African Police, the State Security Council. I believe that David ... Stander warned Holomisa about the assassination plot against him. // Riaan Stander was one of the people who we communicated with, because apparently he was close to a number of these big guns in South Africa. // Why did you warn Holomisa? // I learnt during those years that the ultimate aim ... But we couldn’t see; we were outside the airport, but quite near, about 50 feet across. But we didn’t see what happened, but you could imagine. So there was a commotion. So Mike was shouting you people go down. In the manse in December 1988 there were various people given refuge. Correct? // That is correct. // They included Katiza Cebekhulu, Stompie Seipei, Pelo Mekgwe, Thabiso Mono and Kenny Kgase. // That is correct. // Did you ever rape any of those people? // No. // Did you ever sexually molest any ... Crossroads eleven years later has survived the social engineering that scorched its people and its land. Today, people live and people die, but that’s normal. It was during 1986, I was working with my contacts from Botswana and Kenya. One of my contacts by the name of Ata Mabena, he was a person that used to visit in Botswana. One day I met him at a place where we used to meet at the border. He gave me information that he met one ANC member who told him ... Ten years ago the top five hanging nations in the world were China, Nigeria, Iran, the United States and of course South Africa. By the end of 1989 when a moratorium was placed on the death penalty in South Africa over 2500 people had been hanged in this country. The Truth Commission now has to ... ... correct. I accept responsibility because I was the political head of the department and I’m not going to run away from my responsibilities. Not towards the people out there who actually put me in that position and who had trust and confidence in me. And I will accept the responsibility also ... The Constitution explicitly forbids torture and torture has been internationally, as you pointed out, recognized to cover not just physical abuse but psychological torture and I would agree that psychological torture is probably the most severe form of torture. I think internationally and ... And at night you’d lie in your bed and you’d listen to these bizarre screams and shouts and behaviour and people going quite mad in the ward next door. And it was kind of, well ‘daai klomp is bossies’ [that lot is ‘bossies.’ And it was sort of left at that you know. And I don’t think ... ‘People exhumed by the TRC so far: // Basil Rich Nzama // Lesaja Sexwale // Sureboy Dali // Thabo Rakubu // Senzan Gakhona // Barney Molokoane // Vincent Sekete // Victor Khayiyane // Abbey More // Patrick Motswaletswale // Basil Zulu // Aaron Makwe // Mzwandile Radebe // Watson Majova // Ndlela ... We had another two guys who were from Natal, they escaped to Swaziland and then we were given a mission to go and hunt them down, we were given false passports, a car, a hide-out compartment to hide the weapons which we are going to use there. And then they went in, we followed them, De Kock and ... During the conference of December 1993, that was in Umtata was it not? // That’s correct. // You say the armed struggle or the idea of the armed struggle was to continue; that was the resolution that was taken at that conference. // That’s correct. // Was that a clear signal that went out from ... Did you every sexually molest any of those people? // No. // Did you ever engage in any sexual activity with those people? // No. // Did you ever make sexual advances to them? // No. We have to say in the first instance that the Catholic Church reflected indeed the divisions of the society in which it found itself. Just as apartheid divided people according to colour, so did it divide the church, our church, into a black community and a white community. There was in effect a ... This episode opens with a segment on the murder of four Killer Boys gang members by the ?Mdantsane 12,? whom appeared before the Amnesty Committee this week (East London, 29 to 30 July). The following segment focuses on the still unsolved 27 October 1992 assassination of KwaZulu-Natal activist, ... |
