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people's warExplanation ‘On Hearings…’ // My heart goes out for the women, because the women always come there talking about what happened to their sons, to their husbands, they hardly tell us about what has happened and yet when you probe deeper you’ll also find that they also experienced violations and some of ... But when the interrogation started, Benzien and Nortje were present. They were the only other people in the room with me and when they started interrogating me the intimidation had already taken effect. This intimidation of me had already started when I was in this room and the security policeman ... I do not suggest that people on both sides did not overstep the bounds of the authority. To keep harping on so-called apartheid crimes, conveniently ignoring the fact that atrocities were also committed by the opponents of apartheid is not conducive to reconciliation and amounts to an attempt to ... When they see, even at a bus stop, when they see black people in a queue, they quickly surround them; arrest them, those who have got no passes. Everywhere! Even going to church, on Sunday, going to church, they stop them from going to church. They ask your pass. If you leave your pass you are ... If you did hear from the passengers that she was also a Comrade, that day, would you have acted any differently? // I don’t think so. // Can you elaborate? // At the time, we were in very high spirits and the white people were oppressive. We had no mercy on the white people; a white person was a ... ... some of PW’s memorabilia, anything of PW in that Museum, it needs to be contextualized. For instance, if you walk into that Museum, he’s got awards from the president of Chili and Savimbi, an AK47. You know, it is totally ridiculous. What we need to say is who are these leaders that gave ... Although the ‘Handelsinstituut’ was one of those to criticize the wealth tax, they were the only ones to come with some kind of alternative. They suggest that the old South African Security Risk Insurance Fund, which was used to insure people against political violence in the past, be used for ... Although she denies all knowledge of the assassination plan Derby-Lewis told the Amnesty Committee that she believed it was politically inspired. This is what she told the police during her interrogation in 1993. // We had minimal contact with the right in terms of being involved with them. I ... Alright, we have about a minute. // We have the policy which we’ve just come out with which we are going to present to the president, which actually deals with issues of material reparation, which deals with issues of restitution, on areas where there’s urgent need. And once that document has ... I was a member of the Afrikaner Broederbond from 1940 until 1963 and I’ve got to be in all fairness and honesty, I’ve got to say I regarded it as a tremendous privilege, I regarded it as, yes let me say ‘a calling of God,’ a mission to promote the cause of the Afrikaner people. How did you think by killing these four gentlemen it would serve the interest of the Republic of South Africa? // Along with the instruction that I received Mr Chairman I was convinced at the time the elimination of these people would bring about stability in the area. It was not my decision but I ... Numsa Tshabalala says her son Sibuniso disappeared shortly after Lolo Sono. // Then he said, if you say Lolo was taken by Winnie Madikizela’s people then probably I will be taken there as well. And we left for work, when we came back Sibuniso was not at home. When Sibuniso had gone, that is after ... Were there cases in which special forces cooperated with the police in eliminating people i.e. killing people in accordance with the plan that you testified to before lunch. // That is correct. // And are those the matters in respect of which you have applied for amnesty? // That is correct. // ... If I think about that I feel my heart inside and my brains is like water, boiling. // And now was trying to make the people refugees of South Africa. // Sorry to say it but when I try to think about us, I want to cry. It was a fluent kind of living, vibrant community and I think longing for the kind of freedom that hopefully we’re getting into now, that’s what made it such a magical place and I think it will always hold a place in the imaginations of the people that lived through it and maybe those who ... The seven are still serving prison sentences in the Mdantsane Prison in East London. They explained why they killed her and apologized to her family. // Because we did not know who ADM would kill next. We then acted in self defence against ADM. We can’t go on. The action we then took was to act ... It is necessary to bring together perpetrators and victims and sufferers. It’s all nice to talk about this and pay lip service to the idea until actual people are being identified as perpetrators or victims and then the question is would these specific individuals, will they be willing to meet? ... I don’t know, I told you just now I don’t know nothing about it. The first I know about it is when these people, a month ago, two months … two months ago they were on the farm and they asked permission to come and have a look if there are new graves, or whatever. That’s all. People don’t have houses. People must get houses, they must get back their houses; they must get compensation. Then that would be an indication that something is being done and I think maybe, maybe in the long run people will forgive and forget. In the old apartheid regime, when they called you a very good cop, you’re a cop who takes orders and execute them without asking questions; then you’re a good cop. // You obviously heard of your colleagues at Vlakplaas who were involved in killing people as well. // Yes, that came to my ... |
